Whats that got to do with the price of bread?
Issue: CAP is highly effective against CAS but not everyone has grinded the air tree
Solution: Give everyone access to some form of CAP via an available vehicle.
CAP: Combat Air Patrol (i.e something that is best suited for A2A not A2G and I would suggest being limited air belts in the guns and a patrial A2A missile fit)
Creates an issue of open tops and lightly armored vehicles being even more targeted.
At lower tiers 12.7mm is deadly to many ground units.
Gaijin has already stated multiple times they are not interested in that solution, and as much as CAS is the bane of my existence it is useful for dealing with people who are in positions that are extremely difficult/risky to deal with on the ground.
CAS does bring a crucial element to ground RB, the problem is its counter does not carry much of an incentive to play and can often leave players who choose to play it with little to no game impact if people aren’t taking out CAS.
If you actually properly incentivize dealing with planes as well as bring in a way for people in the air to have their own impact you incentivize having fighters in the sky, bombers doing bomber things, CAS actually has to contend with their counter and you overall get a much more balanced experience
and the game consists of more than just low tier where such is effective. Though the argument can be made that roof mounted MGs are also effective counter to such aircraft.
I still do not see why that is a reason to restrict such a feature from every BR. Especially those where guided weapons start to come into effect and CAP overtakes SPAA in performance notably. I.e 9.0+ for example
(strafed a light tank with 30mm ADENs with ground belts the other day and barely scratch his paint, at higher BRs, guns are not that effective anymore, so CAP armed with guns is a none issue)
1 of the biggest balancing issues in GRB at the moment is treating reserve rank and top tier as playing the same and thus being balanced the same
Wouldn’t exactly call CAP armed with cannons a non-issue. There are plenty of light vehicles across the BR spread that can get rocked fairly consistently. Though I do agree with your overall point.
Getting rid of CAS entirely is missing the forest for the trees
Relatively speaking at least. Guns are generally less effective and getting in that close is waaaaay more dangerous between SAMs, radar assisted SPAAGs and HE-VT.
Ive gotten a few gun kills, but its waaaaaay less consistant than at lower BRs
Yeah it is a lot more difficult, but with cannon CCIP and low strafes it’s definitely still present. My poor Bradley has gotten killed more times with bombs/cannons than its received tank shells lol
It is just a crutch, easy way to get out of hard situation that requires some kind of thinking.
It is just a killstreak, nothing more.
People wanting air stuff are playing air modes.
T-44 for example or even Tiger II H can be damaged/killed with just MGs.
Roof mounted MGs mostly have limited elevation, if an air user knows that then You won’t be able to hit him.
Sure, sadly as with “free” SPAA, we all know that it won’t help much in the end.
Ive spent the last few days in the event just shredding such aircraft with HE-TF on the Ajax :D
I don’t think you really understand what a crutch is. It’s a viable tactic that is used IRL. Why risk ground units when an air attack is safer? This also ties into basic game design theory. A dug in defensive position counters an offensive push, CAS counters dug in positions, SPAA counters CAS, and offensive push overruns SPAA.
Doesn’t address the point I made at all. Pointlessly reductionist
Except a lot of people wanting air stuff will get a few kills in GRB then stay in a plane the whole match because they want different air stuff. Diversification of gameplay is not a bad thing.
I really think you’re missing the forest for the trees on this issue. What Gaijin wants Warthunder to be does not fit at all with what you’re proposing, and they’ve openly turned down the idea of eliminating CAS multiple times.
Spare me the talk about real life, it is a PvP game where You are put in random battle with random people.
The thing is, SPAA doesn’t counter CAS in most cases.
No one wants to remove anything, people just want a new gamemode with just tanks like air has their own. That would solve the issue of unbalance as in current combined gamemode teams would only be made of people wanting combined aspect of the game.
And IRL you dont get to respawn, nor do i see you uninstall the game and delete your account when you get taken down in game.
Your point being?
I think that CAS is usually more of a problem with particularly absurd vehicles like the Yak-9K. I would make it a lot easier to spawn in fighters and interceptors that don’t have interesting CAS abilities, and make certain CAS aircraft really really hard to spawn with the OP weapons like Kh-38MTs or high caliber APHE guns. I don’t personally get all that frustrated if I get taken out by a Stuka, Il-2, A-10, or something like that, but an Su-30SM2 or L-39 is kind of rage inducing.
Personally, I play whatever is necessary for the best possible chance of winning the match above about 6.0 in GRB. Usually that just means spawning another tank. I don’t like the CAS airplanes that can very easily single handedly win a match in the space of a few minutes, though.
So did you miss the part where I said it was also integral to game design?
Citation needed
“Nobody wants to remove anything, I just want a game mode with this element removed”
What Gaijin themselves said they were designing the game for?
Do you or do you not uninstall your game and delete your account everytime you get taken down in game? Since IRL you dont get to respawn.
This is a bad faith argument. You can have realistic elements in a game and not have to achieve total realism. Your beef in this aspect is with Gaijin, not me.
It is not.
You want examples?
New gamemode =/= removing anything from existing gamemode.
Or You want to say that no tanker will be playing combined mode then?
Congrats, you figured it out.
A rock/paper/scissor counter system is pretty ubiquitous in PvP game design. To keep your game from feeling unfair or from gameplay being dominated by one strategy/ability it’s common to have a circular system of counters for that. CAS reliably strong positioning that would otherwise be a massive uphill battle for an offense to break likely resulting in a lot of loss if it even succeeds in the first place. SPAA exists to protect against CAS but (for the most part) is nearly worthless in a defensive position so it would get pretty easily taken out by an offensive push or in higher BRs if the CAS swaps to SEAD instead.
Removing CAS as an element encourages static gameplay that will turn most of your playerbase away as one of the biggest counters to strong defensive positions is CAS. The issue is the counter for CAS doesn’t have enough incentive for players to want to use it as opposed to just toughing it out and hoping they don’t get bombed.
Are there bad SPAA? Sure. Does that mean most SPAA is bad? No. Most SPAA is effective at either taking down or at minimum deterring a strike. The issue is SPAA in most cases /is/ more difficult to be effective in. This also further inflames the issue of there not being enough incentive to play SPAA.
Like my original point said, Gaijin has stated multiple times this is not happening. It’s a nonstarter. That’s been discussed since ground battles became a thing. Instead it’s more productive to focus on what makes this mechanic less of a PITA to play against.
Figured what out? You didn’t even make a point. You made a bad faith argument that made no sense then said “ya did it!”
Not when air is able to deal with all other things eaisly.
People were happy with advanced gamemode where air was less present. I belive that without it nothing would change when it comes to ground battles and it would encourage people to learn the game rather than relying on crutches such as air.
In most cases air can destroy SPAA from outside of SPAA effective range.
Gaijin has said that they don’t understand why people want it.
Not to mention about many things gaijin said is not happening and are already present in the Game.