Well this isn’t like Air Realistic where you pick your ONE vehicle to enter battle with.
People enter battles with lineups that include both ground and air units, and the ground might be a mixture of combat vehicles and spaa.
You can’t make slots for players like you suggest.
Thats not what i am trying to achieve. If people still want to bring a full lineup, they could with this proposal. The point is that the people who want to bring full lineups can use their tanks while in the ground vehicle slots, while the people who want to play CAP or SPAA dont have to weaken their team by taking away a tank from the battlefield.
You left out CAS - they are not ground.
I’m still not understanding the implementation.
Each team has (currently) 16 players. Those 16 can choose any vehicle from their garage as long as they have the SP to do it.
It would be impossible, with the way RGB is set up, to have slots designated for specific vehicles.
And there is no point for it. If players want to use spaa, they are free to do so - so long as they have the vehicle and the SP …
I think its a good idea for a Ground EC style gamemode. Larger scale, bigger maps. With players either able to join as air or as ground. Where you have say 8-12 on the ground and 8-12 in the air, fighting it out in a far larger, more dynamic battle (kinda like if Nuclear Thunder also had a 12-16v12-16 ground battle going on at the same time.)
But I think its overly complex for GRB at this time.
It wont happen because that’s what sells premiums, It is no coincidence that the Su-30AMK and the T-80UE and the BMP-T are all in the same bracket. Remove CAS and players are not buying the premiums and the aircraft premiums are the most expensive ones.
SPAA is unhealthy for the game. CAP should be encouraged whilst SPAA should just be a cheap disposable deterrent.
The issue with modelling propeller PD effects is that Warthunder doesn’t calculate Radar Cross Sections. Blades have a TINY Radar Cross Section, and the PD effects would only apply at close ranges.
In Warthunder however, you can lock an F-117 and a B-52H from the same distance.
The problem is that SPAAs like the Tor-M1, HQ-17, SAMP/T, IRIS-T etc. rely entirely on their teammates to protect them from ground units, and take up a player slot on the team that is not actively contributing to the advancement of the situation on the ground. A Tor-M1 isnt killing tanks to retake a cap or holding a tactically important position because it simply cant do that. One less tank on the front line is a disadvantage potentially leading to a loss on the ground.
True. That system is also too simplistic.
The implementation i am proposing adds 3 to 6 additional player slots specifically for CAP and/or SPAA.
Literally not true. SIM battles can have arbitrary vehicle restrictions and i dont think SIM is massively different in terms of implementation to GRB.
There very much is a point to this. This system would encourage more counters to CAS while not debalancing the amount of tanks on each team.
This isnt true. F-117 and RAH-66 do actually have modeled RCS.
The easiest solution though for helicopters is to simply add the same code that SPAAs have to both Aircraft and fox-3 missile radars. They can always detect a heli, regardless of what its doing. That is all that is really required.
Okay mister “The Gepard should go to 9.0”
RCS of rotor blades depends entirely on the angle to the radar thats looking at them. ARH missiles tend to loft at least slightly, making the angle sufficient for detection.
Prove it
There is no way that that is the case
This if they had just taken the decision to allow players to spawn a CAP aircraft with no ground attack capacity excluding the gun. This CAS issue would never have developed into what it is.
Now not only do we face CAS aircraft but they have fantastic SAMS that prevent any kind of CAP gameplay.
A Helicopter RCS is huge from any angle
I don’t think “modeled” has the same meaning to us.
It’s still range dependent.
Yeah, I’d love to be able to CAP with my F-4J but no1 spawns CAS at that 11.3 due to SPAA.
We were specifically talking about the blades.
They have a notably reduced RCS signature.
Even if it was true, and im on the fence about it, but I also dont know for certain either way. The radars we are talking about at top tier for aircraft, can easily detect small drones, so even a small constant RCS signature would be enough to target and engage LDIRCM helis with Fox-3s. And as for ARH SAMs, they can simply guide the missile in until it goes active which would be closer, but would sitll go active. So I dont think it would be that big of a deal either way.
Though I dont think a lot of modern radars, even those around 11.0+, would have that much of an issue with a stable lock on a heli at a usable range.
And the spinning blades in theory create a large RCS signature on any PD radar
This will affect the queue a LOT. Looking for specific vehicles is a lot harder than players with a garage in the BR range. Waiting for 2-6 players with the specific vehicle to join makes it much more complicated. Plus, are these players stuck in that role the entire battle?
And after a minute or two, you are no longer just talking about tanks - since CAS would probably be in the air.
It is a LOT different.
I would remove the ability to make CAS spawn cheaper by scouting. I would make loadouts with limited kill potential cheaper and make loadouts with maximum lethality more expensive.
Exactly a fully loaded CAS aircraft like a Kh-38 spammer or the F-15 with 20 SPICE bombs should cost near the price of a Nuke
There are certainly better ways to balance it than it currently is. Which is why I think limited CAS loadouts could be cheaper if the scouting bonus was removed or reduced. CAS loadouts with maximum lethality simply put should just cost more.
It’s hard to say what the exact lock range for toptier SPAAs would be, however modeling prop PD would effect lower BRs aswell. OSAs and Rolands shouldn’t be locking drones and munitions as is.
What does that mean, specifically?
If by near you mean ~50% then I agree with you.
I dont see the relevance between those SPAA being able to lock drones and munitions and the current state of heli radar signature modeling…
All helis should be targetable by PD radars, which would enable the use of CAP such as SARH slingers to fight them if they are equipped with PD, which can be found as low as 10.7 in GRB. Period.
After that, they just need to actually model RCS signatures for said smaller weapons, though I dont believe its entirely unreasonable for either to be able to lock onto a recon drone, though actually hitting one I could see being harder with older tech. Though I dont think recon drones should be immune because of their size, as it is, they are waaaaay too tanky.
Drones and munitions should have tiny RCSs that shouldn’t be lockable by old radar systems. The point I’m making is, RCS isn’t properly modeled for radar in WT. If propeller PD effects were modeled, then it would likely result in helicopters having their entire RCS in a constant 200mph closure rate.