If you could, how would you re-balance CAS in Ground Battles?

[Morvran]

@gangsterism

Having a quick re-read through some of the past few messages, I believe perhaps some wires have gotten crossed. So let me try and explain the full picture from my point of view.

I am mainly an air player, but I do play both ground and naval, and I will admit, out of those 2, I play ground the least.

With that perspective in mind, I am constantly annoyed by the fact that aircraft quite often have major restrictions or outright nerfs because “they would be too strong in GRB”.

This is constant and annoying. The most recent example of this for me is the tornado Gr4 and the Brimstone. I was looking forward to this aircraft for it’s mud moving ability within ASB, specifically using Brimstones to destroy the convoys found within that gamemode.

But alas, we do not have that capability and in fact, the brimstone is so weak, it’s pointless to even equip it most of them time. This is my main complaint at the moment with wise to CAS within GRB.

Additionally when looked at within the context of GRB, aircraft such as the tornado Gr4 are hardly worth playing due to both their BR and what they face, it does not actually stand any meaningful chance against SPAA such as the Pantsir let alone the powerful cap is always faces. So within that context too, it is underperforming greatly.

I do not think aircraft should be uncontested you can read my full opinions on changes they should implement above (first comment) and whilst it does need updating and I intend to after the next major update. I will say this. Aircraft performance should not be limited, there should be no reason why I could not spawn into (to continue using the same example) the tornado Gr4 with the full strength of that aircrafts potential loadout, but with an appropriate and reasonable SP cost for that loadout or some other fair and reasonable mitigation method that doesn’t require rather major artificial nerfs to aircraft within every single gamemode, even those where it should not matter.

With the coming new SPAAs I am hoping that CAS can be unrestricted further and aircraft added over the course of the past or so years, can gain more of their IRL performance.

[Maldrokk]

@Pangolin_Fan

CAS hater has 0 reading comprehension, and can’t even unde stand the basic concept that nerfing an entire vehicle class requires decreasing spawn cost to compensate.

You all are the same.

Nerfing the vehicle class to a state it should be in wouldn’t require a cost decrease to compensate tldr.

[Maldrokk]

@Morvran

Should have Brimstone 2s not brimstone 1s

Should be FnF not just SAL

This is more of a Bias type of discussion, being for TO mode even i say brimstones need to be buffed at least SOME from the state they are in instead of just letting KH be the top competitive option for funsies. Gaijin knows exactly what it’s doing by making tons of horrible developmental decisions.

[Sytryse]

You expect everybody jump into planes after two or three kills and doing ARB while on the ground nobody is doing capture point sound very easy unless you play custom game of course.

[Ghost_Rider12]

I’d love to see the Yak’s lose their APHE rounds…either that or they should get a big BR increase. Also would love to see some better SPAA for the UK tree as the Skink just doesn’t cut it until you unlock the Falcon ect

[warrior412]

You certainly won’t find me to be keen on guided missiles (outside of the sparse few wartime examples).

When Gaijin proceeded beyond the Korean war era in both AF and GFs, I was not a cheerleader. Guided missiles and things such as radar SPAAs have brought balance issues that have ebbed and flowed as time has progressed. Guided weapons, helicopters, French reserves…I’m no fan of them.

As you might recall from previous conversations, you and I have different opinions about exactly how air/ground balancing can/should work. I certainly will not tell you the status quo is perfect as-is…it isn’t (especially as technology comes in at higher tiers).

It is refreshing to see that your stance is measured (a la your analogy) and not plainly biased against aircraft as some others’ takes are

[Pangolin_Fan]

Spawn cost for CAS is currently balanced for how powerful CAS is. The idea that CAS should not only be nerfed to the point that it’s near unusable, but also have spawn cost increased at the same time is insane.

[gangsterism]

@Morvran

As a result many of these aircraft are underperforming compared to real life by quite a bit and as someone who uses them in both gamemodes, it’s frustrating having these artificial nerfs within the

i understand that you want the aircraft to be at least slightly realistic, but we are talking about the players targeted by CAS, not whether the aircraft have a perfect realistic loadout.
just because some aircraft should be performing better than how it is now, doesnt make it balanced, let alone underpowered.

@Zulizia

Functionally they’d be identical

functionally they would be different, because there wouldnt be aircraft that kill you almost every game.

@Zulizia

There are many differences between ARB and GRB, and practically none between the proposed Combined-Arms and Tank-only battles.

in ARB, CAS bombs. in GRB, CAS bombs.
in ARB, there are aircraft. in GRB, there are aircraft and tanks.

how different are they? conceptually not much, and yet they obviously play completely differently.

@Zulizia

One of the most liked replies to OP has 87 likes, and begins with “I like CAS in GRB.”

this doesnt argument the creation of a tank-only gamemode nor does it argument the nerfing of CAS.

@Zulizia

This mentality that “all CAS players have no argument”, or “CAS player cant be bothered to understand 5 words of text” (in your own words) is exactly what I’m criticising.

i know why you criticize it, but i have yet to see a single argument that makes sense against adding a tank-only gamemode.
the most sensible thing ive ever read is practically “i would have less defenseless players to harass”.

[Morvran]

@gangsterism

i understand that you want the aircraft to be at least slightly realistic, but we are talking about the players targeted by CAS, not whether the aircraft have a perfect realistic loadout.
just because some aircraft should be performing better than how it is now, doesnt make it balanced, let alone underpowered.

Then clearly you have never tried to fight a Pantsir in most high tier strike aircraft then, because most cant

[gangsterism]

@Morvran

Then clearly you have never tried to fight a Pantsir in most high tier strike aircraft then, because most cant

ive fought CAS in a pantsir and sometimes i get an easy kill, but when the enemy is licking the ground and then suddenly peeks and launches 10 missiles, there is nothing even the pantsir can do, not mentioning any weaker CAS.
CAS vs SPAA is fundamentally not balanced and it doesnt help all the other ground players who have nothing to do with this exchange, yet get killed because the CAS is invulnerable to the SPAA in a certain situation

[Pangolin_Fan]

@gangsterism

CAS vs SPAA is fundamentally not balanced

You’re right. SPAA is many times easier and cheaper to play, having an extremely low skill floor and ceiling, and providing no real penalty for dying

[SwingfireOP]

[KENO]

A huge help would be if they removed the kh38 and replaced it with the ir guided KH29 there was no reason for them to skip all the way to kh38.

[gangsterism]

@Pangolin_Fan

You’re right. SPAA is many times easier and cheaper to play, having an extremely low skill floor and ceiling, and providing no real penalty for dying.

which is so different with CAS right
(it isnt in any way and SPAA has a multitude of disadvantages compared to CAS)
plus your argument doesnt even address the problem with CAS in the first place

[Pangolin_Fan]

The problem with CAS is that some certain vehicles at top tier are too powerful when there’s no Pantsirs on the enemy team. This one specific scenario does not warrant nerfing every CAS vehicle at every BR to the point of unusability.

[Morvran]

Even looking at 1.0 - 10.7. Its seems to be the same handful of aircraft everyone complains about but then apply those aircraft performance to everything else as if they were all equal.

i.e the Lancaster/PE-8 dropped a super massive bomb and killed everyone therefore nerf all heavy bombers

[gangsterism]

@Pangolin_Fan

The problem with CAS is that some certain vehicles at top tier are too powerful when there’s no Pantsirs on the enemy team. This one specific scenario does not warrant nerfing every CAS vehicle at every BR to the point of unusability.

nerf those specific planes and also add tank-only ground

[Pangolin_Fan]

Then advocate for specific nerfs, not universal nerfs.

Also, the idea that TO mode would be good, or that Gajin would add it is dumb.

[gangsterism]

@Pangolin_Fan

Also, the idea that TO mode would be good is dumb.

youre scared that this would take away your free defenseless kills?
because there isnt another reason to say something as wrong as that

[Morvran]

That argument is the same as me saying:

“TO only players just want to be able to spawn camp without risk of being bombed”

Its a stupid argument that shows you have no interest in any kind of meaningful discussion on rebalancing CAS