I mean no offense, but non-naval players' suggestions for "new stuff" will be detrimental to naval gameplay

Game Discussion General Discussion
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(Originally posted elsewhere)

“Naval needs more top tier battleships like Yamato and Montana!”

“Naval needs submarines!”

“Naval needs modern ships!”

“Naval needs carriers!”

Naval in WT needs none of these things right now. Some of them, hopefully never.

This is a recurring problem I see on the forums and to a thankfully lesser extent, on Reddit. Players who have little or no time in the naval modes suggesting that what the mode really needs is a new gimmick, mechanic or technological leap which will surely revive naval. Quite often this person admits to never having played naval and is only asking for whatever shiny new vehicle they want because they have a real-life fascination with it.

Naval, for years, has been in an abysmal state. Gaijin has been struggling since the launch of NF to balance the game around mid-war battleships and dreadnoughts, let alone late/post-war super battleships. Even coastal gameplay is plagued by a number of problems that need fixing long before we add another gimmick which will raise player interest for a week, then leave the servers empty as before.

Here are my observations after a few hundred hours:

-Spawns are often within line-of-sight of one another, leading to deaths within seconds of spawning

-Spawns are far too crowded

-Spawns are often several kilometers from the nearest piece of island cover

-Hordes of Chinese bots and bot clans, with 75% or more of a match being bots with thousands of games in one ship only

-Extreme BR compression; generally speaking, any ship 1 BR below another may not be able to penetrate the other ship, especially above BR 5

-Artificial BR cap to prevent jet powered aircraft from joining naval battles, worsening BR compression

-Bugged ship damage models, especially Scharnhorst

-Ticket bleed is far too fast

-Aiming system in need of a rework; firing at close range is very buggy

-Still no ability to hide non-essential crew (AA gunners) under ship’s armor belt

-Losing a shell room means no more firing from that turret for the remainder of the game

-Most torpedo boats have no chance against surface ships due to exceptionally powerful and accurate secondary guns

-AA/Secondary gunners often unable to “spot” air targets very close by, unless the player sees them directly

-Ship drafts are all over the place. Some ships are nearly impossible to detonate as a result, others are laughably easy.

-Absolutely painful grind, especially in coastal mode, where average RP earnings, with premium, are under 3k per match.

Kindly stop asking for new stuff while all of this goes unaddressed… and has remained unaddressed for years.

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I play some naval and I believe the most important addition would be some diversity in the gameplay

rn it’s just Cannons against Cannons with Destroyers and Torpedo boats being pretty useless even at 5.3 where I’m at right now

just the addition of Aircraft carriers or Subs would make things interesting again and the lack of intrest by most players is the main problem of this gamemode

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and because torps deal too little damage, and because a destroyer or coastal ship has to come close to a battleship to fire them, but that takes minutes, making it very vulnerable to secondary AND primary.

The main problem in naval is that big ships eat small ships, simple as that. Good gunnery can help, but it won’t always help it. Otherwise i agree with the rest of the aforementionned problems.

As for what to add or not to add, my opinion goes like this :

  • top tier battleships can definitely wait.
  • submarines are a priority i think, because they would make the battleships at least more vulnerable, and while they can defend themselves against an overconfident destroyer, they are still very vulnerable and very SLOW, and are quite limited by their low ammunition capacity. cold war and modern subs are an other topic though, but it kinda goes in the “modern ships” category, since they can also fire antiships missiles (and even some can fire SAMs). The spawn location will be the main balancing factor here i feel like : too close to DD and you are food, too close to battleships and it’s free real estate.
  • modern ships ? idk about that one. I think it’s just going to be an attrition battle more than anything : the first ship to run out of missiles in its VLS can’t intercept incoming AntiShip missiles and dies. So not a priority i believe.
  • carriers is the one addition i would hate the most. Not only does it break the policy of “1 player controls 1 vehicule at a time”, but it will come with its own balancing issues. I’d have prefered for it to be added without the capability of carrying planes, so that you have to position yourself, maybe go against the wind to help allied controlled players plane to land. More passive, chill gameplay which would require teamwork, but maybe there wouldn’t be enough planes to make it interesting, idk.
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I mainly want better rp progression for coastal vessels, there’s so many interesting boats but the weak progression + long wait times just turns me off from it.

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Its the same people who said “I would play naval if I could start with DD because boats are boring” when there was just one TT for naval. TT got split like it is now and there are like " I would play it if if if if…"

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The ticket bleed gets me the most, few ships are fast enough to get between caps after one has been capped by the other team, also because the spawns actively encourage spawn sniping.

Needs a big rework before we see any step-up’s but as part of that i’d encourage bringing all the trees up to the level of Germany or the nearest equivalent below that level.

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I agreed, it won’t be the same naval we’ve had, but it will lead to an influx of naval players, which in turn means more chances of people to buy more premiuM’s, so high chances are that gaijin will do it anyway.

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You could add longer matches, by reducing the points you lose when the enemy takes over zones, and I think that submarines are a crazy thing in Tue, and it will end very badly, because of course Gaijn will argue that the players will cooperate with each other and BB, they will protect destroyers that will hunt submarines, cooperation is difficult on the GRB, let alone on ships, there will be an even bigger mess, another thing is the removal of rating maps, every map must have mountains so that EVERY type of ship can hide somewhere, and every the ship type should have its own spawn point, the torpedo boat has the closest spawn point, followed by frigates etc., behind the frigates are destroyers, and then light cruisers, and then heavy cruisers AND BB, because it’s stupid that the destroyer has to spawn together with BB, I think that you also need to add paper ships that will fill the gaps in later BBs, and the last thing could be to add a wheel for repair priorities, for example you have a damaged engine and AA, then first the AA will be repaired and then the engine will be repaired, which will cause you to die, the player should choose it himself what has priority in repair, and this should also be included in the ground mode, but last gaijn add Yamato regardless of the balance because it will count on the same as with scharnchort, i.e. that people will buy premium vehicles or skip them to get yamato, and they won’t care about the balance, damn I’m waiting until I have a yamato and f4 will bombard me, I’m sorry if there are any mistakes, my English is not very good :(

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Your richardguy2!?

I’m codyblues2!

I’d said it over there and I’ll say it here, I don’t see why we need subs right now. I really don’t think the game is ready for them and seems more like a gimmick.

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What does Naval in WT need right now because right now the mode is pointless and is wasting development resources.

The only Naval game I actively was excited to play was the sub event, it was pretty fun messing with the mechanics.

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the 15 point list of problems, if you were literate

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So Naval needs QOL TLC

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Thats why it is important to get involved in Suggestions on the forum, and share input/Feedback as Experienced naval players

And even make suggestions of your own that can even counter argument non or low experienced naval players ideas / suggestions

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So I should reply to every suggestion asking for modern ships, battleships/carriers etc, saying “no”??

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The problem is, as the game evolves more and more things becoming more interesting to players and developers and may find a place in game, and they would add more and new challenges to keep the game interesting

The other thing is, there are still many areas of naval warfare where there are still vast communities that may find War Thunder interesting and to play if new things are added

Submarines for example, there is a vast Submarine community out there that are interested in all sort of Submarine games, so it would be crazy not to try and pick them up

So that is just a example…

As for just saying “No”… well that can mean anything and that is just not feedback that can help…

It is better to say why something is not needed right now and or suggest what could be done in stead

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That’s why I wrote this out. I’m not going to be putting an entire essay in every time someone wants the Montana or aircraft carriers. People need to understand that shiny new things won’t fix the litany of issues naval has.

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How do you see either or both of those working in a WT game?

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Everything dies in naval, but I regularly get 2-5 player kills with a PT boat in the “open water” map at 65.7 or 6.0 when I have a 5.0 lineup - in fact I invariably start with a PT boat on that map in those circumstances because htey do so much better than my DD’s!

Sounds like you got a skill issue! :p

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Remember when we were never going to get supersonic jets? Or missiles? Or good missiles? Or x… y… z…

Carriers, subs, modern stuff, it’s all coming. We just need to figure out how to get Gaijin to model it right and keep the game mode fun

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Spawn crowding is definitely a problem, but I like the intensity of LOS spawns.
I like to brawl and do not enjoy the snail’s pace “hide behind an island and hope for the best” gameplay, and my win rate is 72% with 77% top 3 because aggressive play works better for me.
Which is part of the reason the ticket bleed is where it is, like it or not it’s supposed to discourage that kind of play.
Yes, I hate killing an entire enemy team and then still loosing because someone smart in a coastal got to a cap first, or someone remembered they have a scout plane. But what really lost that match is a team hiding behind islands plunking away, so I play to carry.
It’s also not that hard to learn to manouvre and fire, and quite satisfying to deliver accurate fire while dodging incoming fire. The biggest trick to that is the one bind no-one seems to realize exists: Direction correction. You use direction correction to both aim your fire consitently and accurately where you want and to counter the offset caused by your own turning.

The same thing goes for torpedo boats. And smart play with them as well. I’ve gotten a gun kill on a Des Moines in the S-701 after waiting for the bulk of it’s deck crew to be knocked out, artied it, got right up next to it after it’s AA and secondaries stopped and unloaded. Great fun.

Mine kills are the next best thing, few things more satisfying than sneaking up under a heavy cruiser’s guns and popping it with mines.

But I agree that hiding non-essential crew or at least being able to selectively repair specific modules is desperately needed, but then again, the satisfaction of being down to one turret, landing the kill so you can disengage and repair is pretty sweet.

Yup, coastal grind is awful, needs to be fixed.

Yup, the aiming system is not great and very poorly explained. It definitely takes a lot to master.

I think the biggest problem with naval is that it highlights how primitive the actual game modes are in WT, so when you throw vehicles that by their very nature ARE harder to use and require you to do very basic math to aim (some basic subtraction for distance), it turns off all but the most committed. Something that Gaijin’s economic approach of throwing SL at the problem doesn’t address (It did for me, I got into naval when I realized it’s an SL cash machine and then got good and learned to love it).

The biggest QOL improvement Gaijin could make across the whole of WT is better games modes. The strongest thing in the sub event is that they’ve actually implemented an interesting and dynamic game mode in the convoy protection and seek and destroy. Outside of naval, they’re unlikely to change much: from their perspective the game modes are good enough to keep players playing, queue times short and matches full in GRB and air modes, and that’s all they need. But hopefully they’ll start innovating more with naval game modes to get people coming in.

Bots and hacking is definitely a problem, but I’ve noticed a lot less bots since Sons of Attilla dropped.

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