The same applies to air RB, suddenly F-16C and Typhoon are the same BR under this system cause there isn’t 4 positions of separation to allow for more diverse BR placement.
Right now we can have Tornado F3, JF-17, F-16C, and F-15C/E all being different BRs.
Under this system, two of those would most certainly share BRs.
There is nothing with 10 AMRAAMs either. (unless you are using AMRAAM as a universal term which would be wrong)
AMRAAM is an American missile and the F-15E can only carry 8 of them without any other ordinance.
But also irrelevant to the thread. Look at his amazing code that could benefit the game with some tweaking.
GREAT JOB!!! @COMBINE
I don’t understand what you mean by the F16C and Typhoon have the same BR (they are not), they still have a high chance of entering the same lobby, but BR decompression and smaller matchmaker are largely saving the vehicles with the lowest BR in the room. Imagine J11 vs Rafale and J11 vs F4S, it’s a completely one-sided battle, so why don’t we set smaller matchmakers to at least give these marginal aircraft a chance to breathe (BR decompression is essentially the same in purpose). The battle between J11 and F15J is much more interesting and competitive.
an AMRAAM is ANY Advanced Medium Range Air to Air Missile.
AIM120, R77, MICA, the Chinese missile, all qualify under the term AMRAAM.
Not sure what you are trying to argue here.
Again, at the current state of the game, having 8-10 AMRAAMS would automatically put them in the highest tier, as it should be.
Perhaps the ideal battle is that the entire lobby is filled with the same BR, imagine J11 vs Rafale, J11 vs F4S, this is a completely one-sided battle. The battle between J11 vs F15J is much more interesting and competitive.
I looked it up and google said that is not true but ok. Maybe google is wrong but it said “No the R-77 is not a AMRAAM” when I searched “Is the R-77 a AMRAAM” I got the same results for the mica and PL-12
This is why I think RB should adopt SBs brackets.
Uptiers become a choice, not random chance
I was trying to argue that you should be appreciative of his code instead of some other things.
AMRAAM is Aim-120
MRAAM is generally any BVR missile
At least in most conversations. Technically AMRAAM or even ASRAAM stand for something universal, but have taken on a specific conotation.
Like Aim-9X, Aim-132, IRIS-T could all be considered ASRAAMs, but ASRAAM is widely associated with the British made “Aim-132” (though that isnt used in most contexts and instead its referred to as “ASRAAM”) and the type of weapon is usually referred to as SRAAM (which does get a little confusing with the British again, but heyho)
But you realize that it is not battles playing the game, but players? So you would have to measure time from the player perspective. Because those do the waiting.
Your matches also do not balance out top tier, which is somewhat essential. In that regard, your simulation does not capture current reality.
BR decompression is objectively superior to compressing the BRs in the matchmaker.
J-11 being OP is an issue.
There is no “code” here. It is simply someone putting their opinion forward. I have also put my opinion forward, as this is a forum.
Thanks though.
Why do you say that I didn’t measure time from the player’s perspective? Match time refers to the time from the first player entering a match queue until the last suitable player enters the match queue. I don’t understand why you say that. Isn’t it necessary to gather a certain number of people before a battle can begin?
In addition, you said that my matchmaking cannot balance the top level. Why? I don’t understand. It’s useless to just throw out opinions. Please at least explain why.
First of all, please don’t just throw out opinions, that’s pointless. Also, do you think that a smaller matcher has at least some positive effect, even if it costs more to implement? If so, why don’t we implement both BR decompression and a smaller matcher?
Also, you know how to steer the debate elsewhere, you’re turning a match issue into an issue of the aircraft itself, I’m not talking about J11 performance here (essentially I’m talking about uptier and downtier). What if this isn’t J11, but F15A vs Rafale and F15A vs F4S? Or Su27, Su33?
No, the matchmaker has no benefit.
You reduce the number of positions for vehicles from 4 to 3, that’s all negative with no benefit purely from that fact alone.
This is one of those situations where yes, smaller number is worse. Granted bigger number could be worse as well.
World of Tanks/Planes uses your matchmaker, and you know how they balance vehicles in that hyper-compressed matchmaker? Fictional penetration values and hitpoints for tanks, and fictional flight performance and hitpoints for planes.
Most 13.0s need brought up by 0.3, and all 13.3s - 14.0s need brought up by 0.7.
That arguably cures the top BR compression entirely.
And we can argue hypotheticals on how it wouldn’t, but until we play those matches with that decompression, we can’t know for certain.
Gaijin matches must contain 0-4 top BR players on each side. Does your model accomodate that?
Gaijin matches need to accomodate squads, obeying the rule above.
But what about not so suitable players? How long does a player have to wait for a match? Are they all matched or do they stay in the pool for longer. Did you track all your players in the queue process?
Sounds good but it will make some BRs so desolate you might not find matches all so quick. raising the BR roof however
Why do you think different matchmakers lead to fictitious performance and armor values, and other fictitious things? Well, is your point that as soon as Warthunder stops using a ±1.0 matchmaker, the whole game will be full of fictitious information very quickly?
Also, here’s a question you keep avoiding: if a plane will only fight with planes of the same BR as it, do you think that’s fair?
You also admit that until we play those matches with that decompression, we can’t know for certain. So please at least give players a chance to try, at least this request is reasonable, even if it’s on a DEV server?
I think a more compressed matchmaker leads to more compression because the VAST majority of vehicles are perfectly balanced 1.0 BR apart.
Like over 90% of the aircraft in the 7.0 - 8.0 range are balanced to each-other’s capabilities. [The 8.0 Migs and Sabres are part of the minority.]
You’d have to change the BRs of over 2000 vehicles to accommodate your idea, whereas with decompression you only have to change the BRs of a minority of vehicles.
It does alot of the work of decompression, but in much less time.
I think that it is a worse solution than proper decompression, but it takes much less time and effort. Gaijin has shown us repeatedly that they do not want BR decompression, so we need to find other ways to achieve similar results.
A Mig-17 shouldn’t be able to face Meteors/Vampires, but it also shouldn’t be facing supersonic aircraft with missiles that it can’t dodge. A flareless supersonic plane without missiles shouldn’t be facing something like a Mig-21MF. An F-4S shouldn’t go from facing harriers at 11.0, to facing Su-27s/F-15As/Aim-120s. And those 13.0 planes shouldn’t be facing Eurofighters and Rafales.
I agree, but do you really think Gaijin will do that? That also doesn’t solve the rest of the BR compression in the 8.7-10.3 range.