A poor 9.3 German Bo105 (1 of 2) displaying its small fangs (small AGM count, pod based flares, 6 mighty mouse at max and no Air to air weaponry)
notice how there is nothing at 10.0 or even anything with similar capability as whats coming up next
while this thing is at 10.0 it has 8 km ranged AGM-114 which no german SPAA can reach unless it uses the roland 3.
an 8.7 heli with Thermals.
a 10.0 with great AGM and TY-90 Air to air missiles (nothing to laugh at these are quite good)
another 9.3 with THERMALS and air to air missiles AND built in flares.
The BO are 9.3 because under 9.7 the HOT is the best ATGM an helicopter can fire with 4km of range, meaning there are only 5 vehicles that can credibly threaten you, and the most potent one is on your team. This would be a different matter if the MANPAD blanket nerf was adressed though.
Having 6 of them gives the BO the second best payload of every helicopter below 9.7, with only the Japanese AH-1E coming on top with 8 TOWs.
There are two other helicopters tying with the BO in payload at 6 ATGMs, one is the arguably undertiered UH-1C that can carry 6 ITOWs, the other is the nearly extinct IAR 316B with Malyutkas.
You are correct however about the G-LYNX, it’s BR should be tied to that of the Roland system in order to be counterable even in a full downtier.
The Z-11WA is balanced despite it’s thermals, because the HJ-8A are about as bad as Malyutkas.
The Z-9W is again balanced by the HJ-8C being still about as bad as Malyutkas, except it’s at 10.0, nearly a full BR above the BO, so yeah, it’s better, whodathunk ?
The TY-90 is it’s own debate, fairly overblown in my opinion.
The Gazelle is the same BR as the BO with thermals, but to compensate they have a lower payload at 4 ATGMs top, the Mistral are still subject to the MANPAD blanket nerf, meaning that you can trade some ATGMs for deadweight, wich is nice, but not meta defining. Also the BO has a RWR and the Gazelle doesn’t.
The BOs will probably get foldered in the progression update, the EC145 will come when we start getting more fire and forget weapons on helis. Germany absolutely does need something to plug the gap between the BO and the Tigre other than the Mi-24P, moreso since it’s a sideprogression of the first BO.
The issue is with the one dimensional loadouts.
If a jet decides to grief the heli spawn you are literally unable to defend.
Well see thats the issue.
Theres more.
The strela m10 literally silent spaa, and the all too toxic 2S38 (or 2S28 whatever its called) ifv with proxy fuse HE.
both are silent and can easily knock the poor Bo (a civillian helicopter by design btw) from over 5 km.
With the new atgm physics, the tow overcorrects way too much. Ive had to relearn the whole aiming system and have gotten pretty good with it but the thing is it takes too much time to maintain focus on target.
Many other helis have air to air weaponry and many mre pylons and loadout options than the Bo. The flare pods prevent the atgms being mounted snd the guns prevent the atgms as well. Meaning yoi are basically restricted to 3 atgms if you want a gun and flares with it.(the fun is a .50 cal amd short of other helis at extremely close range it dosent help).
Z-9W has target acquisition dosent it? Like target lock? Thats a great help if you use even bad atgms.
I dont think the mistral are bad. The mere presemce of anti air weapomry deters jet pilots from focusing helis. But not any german heli except the tiger or the hind.
Bo-105 is not bad. Have alot good matches with that thing. Its small enough to not produce too much of a heat signature, so IR missiles can’t lock on you until your’e close. Its very agile, so you can spawn early, climb high above the battlefield and shot HOT’s from above into the turrets. Like dipping down, look towards the ground shot, pull up. Mind your coll and your speed, otherwise you damage the turbines. Something you can’t do in a eg. Mi-24, which usually crashes down when you try this. Its BR is also low enough to not face too strong AA and IFV ATGMs (Spike etc). Problem is only the new missile flight mechanic from the last content patch, which is really meh, but affects all vehicles in War Thunder.
But still, russian and chinese helis are another story. They’re just the upper league, while everyone else eats dirt or has to do the best with of the tools they get.
the most of my deaths are due to 2S28s tbh. that thing has no right to have a proxy fuse shell. if thr bo had thermals (which is common at its br) we could better defend ourself but even then the flare pod removes 3 HOTs
What 9.3 helicopter is actually versatile other than the Gazelle ? And for that you have to disregard the state of MANPADs.
Fixed wings are by nature superior to rotary wings, for the Gazelle to kill a plane actively hunting it down, it would require the pilot to be ignorant of everything regarding planes and helicopters, you can’t make a balance argument about people like that.
I’m dying to see that video of a Strela whacking a BO from 5km out. I sure can’t do that with a Type 91.
The 2S38 being undertiered, again, not a balance argument. A vehicle that is almost a full BR above yours is expected to be hard to deal with. 4km of range gives you options, if you choose to hover directly above your spawn at high altitude to see the whole map, you choose the worst one.
Being a civilian helicopter didn’t seem to stop you from implying the Écureuil or Dauphin were OP tho…
At 9.3 only the Gazelle has air-air missiles, if you start comparing the BO’s payloads to 9.7 and more helis, it shouldn’t stand as a big surprise that they outclass it. It does suck to have to sacrifices hardpoints for flare, but for a BO to be 9.0 worthy it would require it to be impossible to mount 6 HOT by having a pylon permanently locked to carrying flares/gunpod.
When I talk about bad ATGMs, in the case of the Malyutka and HJ-8 it’s about their short range and weak destructive power. Bad guidance can be skilled around, or by the luxury of target tracking that the Z-9W doesn’t feature.
An all aspect AIM-9B with IRCCM is nothing to write home about. Also a pilot has no way to know in advance if a Gazelle mounts Mistrals or not, and even if it does, you can’t miss the trail.
Helicopter flares aren’t that helpful, the only missiles they will work on are the Strela-10 (and there’s no reason to ever get so close it can lock onto you) and R-60Ms from a Hind/Su-25/AIM-9L A-10 (and there’s a lot of ways they can still kill you anyway).
Just run full ATGMs and don’t fly high all the time.
