Agreed, sadly i cannot provide any such evidence due to privacy and security reasons.
I would call it an educated guess - based on experience.
I receive the “10 players have complained…” message exclusively when i take out fast aircraft with good to excellent high alt performance. I mean if a Yak-3 squad tries to catch a P-47 D-28 or a bunch of 109s with gunpods can’t get in their gun range of my B-18 B it is not my problem.
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By extending playtime and allow for more pts from ground? then Yep the whole profit system’s logic is sht
Same. Sadly, i got no ideas how to make it better, to solve the problem 1st post describes. It’s a difficult problem, it seems. Which is one of reasons i brought the matter here. Perhaps, someone else will have an idea. I’d sure love to see any.
Sidenote: philosophical considerations of “gray areas” and “some innocents will always end up punished” - are not what i count among such ideas. In my book, if there’s anything which can be done to reduce any innocent’s suffering - then it must be done. I’ve discovered the problem, i posted about it. I know there are people in here who know more than i do. I hope they would at least take this topic into consideration, and if so, then i believe that i already helped WT’s community a little by creating this topic.
Sidenote: i’ve met many players who understand this problem same or similar way that i do. They ask their teammates not to kill “the last guy”, tell them some of reasons i mentioned in this topic, in varying ways. And sometimes - not often, but it happens - it even works in practice; the last guy, even if in some slow bomber, is left alone. Even if he’s flying circles over his AA field and is very easy to destroy, even despite AA presense.
Yes. I fully support this, and already elaborated above as much.
Only secondary goal. Not the primary. Also detailed above in this topic, already. So far, noone objected that part, too.
Also, there is the 3rd way: creating ticket advantage by the time map timer ends. The team with most tickets remained - wins. This is neither common nor rare way to win matches - at some BRs, happens more often than at others, though. But, there is a sound tactic which i’ve used to get some victories, based on this 3rd way: when i was the last guy remaining vs few fighters, flying a fast strike aircraft (mainly Su jets) - climbed to stratosphere, had them all chase me, then when some ran out of fuel and went RTB, and just few minutes remained until the end of the timer - dove down and cleared some ground units (using that cannon which was not spent trying to do “combat”), turning the ticket situation from losing to winning, and survived till the end of the timer. Doesn’t work if trying to outrun them low-alt: then they usually manage to corner you with “avenger” and “blind hunt” orders, but high-alt, speed difference is large enough to allow circling at ~2 Mach keeping them far enough for their missiles to never be able to catch you.
Much more complex, and much more balanced, than what you just described. AI units (planes) destroying ground units. Different kinds of ground / naval targets giving wildly different amount of rewards, and rightly so - some are massively easier to destroy than others. Physical size of targets (both player and non-player targets sizes vary wildly). Varying amounts of damage it takes to destroy targets. Etc.
“We”? Maybe “you” need to question it, i don’t know if you do, but i don’t need to question it at all; i already told exact meaning of it, the way i see it, above in this discussion. I see solid reason for it to be as it is, and briefly described it, above in the discussion. I am sorry if i failed to do it perfectly well. :(
Are you trying to tell people how they “should” play the game, what exactly they “should” do to have fun? I’m positive that grinding is loved by many players. It’s not just in WT, mind you. Ever since Ultima Online (the Mother of all MMORPGs), it was discovered that grinding “stats” in a game - can be, and is, good fun for great many people!
This is one more separate problem with this particular rule’s wording, however. “Inactive” word is not clear enough. What exactly is “inactive”? The rule gives just one example of it: being AFK. This is clearly not the case when the player is actively piloting their vehicle in a “running away” manner. Is he inactive when he’s clearly actively steering, using countermeasures, chatting, etc? In my opinion - no, he’s not inactive. In many other player’s opinion - he is. Technically, i.e. by strict meaning of the word? Probably not inactive. Applicably, i.e. how game admins deem it be? Most likely varies from one admin to another (this is my pure guess). In any case, it’s a mess of a rule right here, in this regard.
I did not apply “preconceived circumstances” to it. Those circumstances were given as one actually-happened example to illustrate the general logic, only. There are other, different examples also confirming the logic i used. Which logic, simply put, is this: in general, if someone is avoiding combat for any given length of time - it does not yet mean he’ll keep doing it for the entirety of remaining time in a match, and in many specific kinds of situations, such a temporary combat avoidance - can be, and is often, done to increase the person’s chance to end up winning the match.
That’s why the only undisputable case when “avoiding combat - is wrong” situation - is when someone is doing it from very start of the match, and for the entirety of the match’s duration. Then and only then can we be sure that this person’s goals, ideas and their personal understanding of what is “right” to do in a match - were not involved; that the person simply decided “not to play” the game in any reasonable way.
Let me give you one very different example to illustrate this more. Several weeks ago, i was doing “best squad” wager in air AB, while not being in pre-made squad. Late props BR. In one of games, an AD-2 was assigned to be my squadmate. From the start, he went from spawn point directly to one of enemy bases which was quite far from the middle of the map. I escorted him in my powerful fighter plane, needing to be near him when i get kills, to earn next stage of that “best squad” wager. He then dropped a couple of bombs to that enemy base, which took out less than 20% of that base’ health. And then he remained near that base, doing circles, waiting for his two bombs to respawn on his plane (which is how it works in arcade). He did it again, and again, and again - some 6 or 7 times in total, dropping them onto that base nearly once a minute. Flying circles near it, otherwise. And for all that time, i remained near him, escorting and protecting him. No enemies ever bothered to go after us.
Now, anyone observing this situation from “outside”, not knowing circumstances related to my best squad wager and preferences / skills / abilities / plane modules of that AD-2? Could very easily see us both being inactive near the edge of the map. Partucularly myself - while that AD-2 was bombing, i was literally flying circles 1 km over his head, seemingly “doing nothing” in a fighter.
So you see, such situations and “circumstances” - are all kinds of. Examples i gave - are only provided to explain how it happens in the game in few particular cases, point out relevant details, show involved complexity of it. Not as any “proof”.
Someone above in this discussion offered the option of “let enemies kill you”. How about you stay full open and take THAT option? It keeps you “in combat”, you know. You gotta follow the RULES, you know. No? ;)
In this case, you’re avoiding engagement “now” to possibly achieve other objectives later. May not happen, that “later” - someone else may bomb that base before you can, for example. And then, how do you know that every “running away” guy didn’t plan to do some objectives later, too? Above in this discussion, i described one particular “stratospheric” tactic which does exactly that!
I regularly see people doing stupid things - in life, in WT, in other titles. I mean, all kinds of things - in general. Should i then applaud and support their practical stupidity?
Also, in this specific case, it is actually one revolting thing such players do, when they make such reports. Revolting and insulting. You know why? Because such reports, especially when deemed sound by reviewing personnel, end up limiting “running away guy”‘s freedom to go where they want, when they want, in this game. I mean, take any specific player - anyone - and explain to me, how, exactly, other players’ opinion of that player’s manner of playing should anyhow limit his ability - in however manner and kind of limitation it’d be - to go where that player wants, when he wants it?
Why those other players’ desires are more important that one single player’s desire to “run away”?
Why those other players’ opinion and wish - are respected, but that single guy’s wish - is not?
Nope, this all stinks, to me. Bad logic. Incorrect. And it’s one big part of the problem of that “avoiding combat = inactivity = punishable” logic and system we have in WT, in my very humble opinion.
And how do you know if that “running away” guy had such an intent? Particularly, if he was chased and failed to survive until the point he planned to re-engage? And/or, whether he hoped for a situation when re-engaging could achieve a victory, but that situation never matherialized (for example, he hoped to resume grinding ground units to earn victory by ticket advantage, hoping no enemies would grind any ground units while he’s running away and chatting with them, but some of them did, ruining his hopes and plan for that match)?
There is no telepathy. Sure, quite many “running away” players does not have any such plan - they just avoid combat to stay alive (which by itself is sound strategy to earn RP, to remind you). But equally certain that many “running away” players - have such plans. Some hope to wait until some of chasers go RTB and re-engage remaining ones, then go to enemy air field if they manage to get there and drop the rest. Some hope to win it by “fuel war” - i’ve heard other players using this exact term, mind you. Some rightfully observe their team’s AI strikers are alive and given enough time, could win by ticket lead, if the other team continues to fail to clear those AI strikers. Etc.
So, how do you know what exactly was in that “avoiding combat” player’s head, at the time he did some such avoidance? How do you know what purposes and hopes they had?
Way i see it - you don’t. Nobody can know it with certainty, with just one exception: they avoid combat at all times, all the time, in all matches.
But you just spoke as if it’s possible to know it.
May be you are a telepath. This is no sarcasm - heck, what do i know is only that i am not one. Weird stuff sometimes happens in reality, like quantum theory and such. Maybe telepahy exists, and you’re one of people who can do it. If so, then i would agree that your argument i just quoted - is correct, and my objections to it - are incorrect. But if not so, then i respectfully agree to disagree, if needed.
Cheers.
You didn’t do it at all.
You only described how it can be used to maximize rewards.
But why is it still a part of the calculation?
The reward system was made in an era of the game where matches last 1 hour. It has no right to exist in the current state where toptier matches last 3min. Even prop matches can be done in 5min.
Sure, much more messy.
Sometimes the same like the time problem. GJN deleted auto ticket bleed but AIs still destroy ground units. So in some situations it could make sense to destroy your own AIs, because otherwise you can’t equal tickets anymore. You see the mess?
Also a mess because it depends on what your plane is capable of, but the matchmaker doesn’t care about it. The MM only play dice out of the available planes in the BR range with way to less rules. And the reward system itself is a mess too. In the current battles bases have no effect to the battle but still (even after nerfed) give way too much rewards.
Explain me what is fair on the example i told you before: 3 studebakers or 1 player kill give the same mission points ish.
And NOW we have several new maps (Falkland/Denmark/toptier Smolensk), ground targets bleed no tickets at all but the color of the marks say they should. So unexperienced players do ground pounding, earn a lot of rewards but hinder their team.
And these are only few examples, there are a lot more…a lot!
Once again, you see the mess?
Time for me is a problem we can discuss after all these bigger problems are solved.
Not only. I also described, in one of comments, how it serves to ensure that everyone is getting significant, “good enough” RP, regardless of how they play. And i mentioned how it’s very unlikely to change any much, due to this function of “time played” RP reward in the system.
Please, refer there for further elaboration which answers your here question.
Ok, this example is pretty simple, unlike most others. Let’s see why this is so and how it’s actually well balanced feature.
Bases are there to fulfill multiple purposes:
-
to enable bomber, bombing-striker, and bomber-fighter pilots to have something to do with their high caliber and/or incendiary bombs. They must exist for this reason alone;
-
to provide a big, easy-to-hit target for pilots who have difficulty hitting smaller ground targets (planes with no ballistic computers, no ground indication of impact point, strategic bombers designed to operate from high altitude, from which bombs have large spread, etc);
-
in longer matches, to provide renewing source of targets for bombing pilots, as bases, unlike ground / water units, respawn after a few minutes;
-
in all battles, destruction of bases must give relatively big reward, because there are planes which can do little else. Anyone who played Canberras, Tu-4s, B-29s, etc etc - know that. Meaning, all the pilots who fly those planes - must get respectable activity and RP rewards from destroying bases (only, or mainly).
3rd feature of bases, described just above - straight makes it impossible to anyhow tie any significant ticket bleed to bases’ destruction: if you do, then in longer matches it’d be possible to bleed all tickets of enemy team without destroying much, or possibly even any, ground and AI units present on the map. Which would mess up importance and gameplay role of those units, at least to some large extent. That’s why it’s a no-no.
End result: bases must be there, they must not produce any much ticket bleed when destroyed (possibly repeatedly), they must give competitive RP reward. And it’s exactly how it is in the current reward system.
Now, that was a simple example of objecting one of critisisms of current reward system you’ve made. Other of your such points - would require even times lengthier explanations. I am not going into full details on those, as after all, that’s now the subject this topic is about. Not primarily, at least. And also, frankly, i suspect you don’t wanna me to, too?
Have a good day, man. Regardless whether we agree on things or not, it was good to talk. Thank you. o7
To you. To me, working with a bunch of randoms to get the win is why I play this game. RP/SL? meh.
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No
No (skill issue)
No
No
Wrong conclusion ( there are still front line maps, bombers can end battle very quick)
No
You are one of those players, who want a game to grind without any effort. That’s not the idea of ARB!
ARB is a PvP mode with a part of PvE to make all vehicles usefull in some sense. But because PvE exists all planes should have the ability to win a battle. So in first place, all actions should have an effect to the battle. And the reward system has to follow it. The bigger the effect the bigger the reward.
Fair, but inconsequential, objection.
I did not say that RP/SL are primary goal, i said that going one’s best individually - is the primary goal. In part, this is to earn more RP/SL, yes - but only in part; in other part, it’s to improve one’s stats (like k/d, player’s PvP efficiency and other stats collected and displayed by the game), and yet in other part, it’s to avoid forming ties with other randomly-picked team members. Mind you, great many players don’t want such ties, any preparation, any coordination, etc - they want instant action.
And yes, exceptions to “the primary goal is to do better individually” - exist, and you are one such exceptional player. But it only confirms the rule, though, because in majority of cases, RP/SL matters to players much, as those are used to progress and maintain playability, and most people are not Rockfellers to spend gazillion money to buy into higher ranks and multiple nations. And like i mentioned up there, reward system gives RP/SL for individual actions, in large amounts regardless whether the team loses or wins. Sure, there is team-winning bonus, significant one - but not a game-changer.
So you see, the game is designed in such a way that in all random battles modes, for “usual” kind of players, team win is secondary to “how well i, personally, played in the match”.
P.S. Sadly, it’s often, but far not always, that particular player’s and team’s goals - are the same. “Kill stealing”, for example, was one problem emerging from this very simple “the goal is to do best individually”, and was so common and big that now the game features in-game mechanic which much reduces kill-stealing problem (severe damage counts as a kill).
How a game is designed and how you choose to play within that design are two different things.
What I think it is, deep down, are a bunch of kids who grew up playing CoD where it’s all about the kill streak, KDR. Whereas I grew up with Battlefield 1942 and others, where it was about working with your team to cap objectives. Or other games, like Vietcong, where modes often had you ‘capturing the flag’.
Yeah, I want a high KDR as much as the next person, yeah I keep an eye on statshark, but the most fun I have in this game is those acts of teamwork with people I don’t even know to get the win. I won’t see those people again, but we came together in that moment and made it work. It’s a beautiful thing.
You’re not wrong. Often misguided players who ruin rounds by bombing bases in F-4S, or bringing Turms and other premiums without a lineup to be found. They’ll find out in the end that their rush to top-tier was silly.
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But on their way they ruin the whole game for all other players.
You don’t, if you only focussed on maxime your own profit in any way. Even KD players ruin the game in some sense.
The only valuable motivation is to win the battle with your team.
I only paid 50bucks for my first year premium and 2bucks for DEFYN’s decal in my whole time.It’s a free to play game, play a lot or pay a lot.
Maybe this is the reason for our thinking. I played 20 years Counterstrike/ Day of Defeat.
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I quite dislike air RB, I only play it sometimes for RP, usually I play air AB. I quite like if one guy makes the game last, whether I’m winning, losing, or dragging it out myself… it’s purely for moree RP and how RP in air RB work…
I am not.
And you can see it. A short example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b4kmNPdJuA . For years, i am no stranger to fighting while piloting even bombers, too, as again you can see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh89PcuE8rQ .
So, this statement of yours - made me think that any further interaction with you in this topic (and likely elsewhere) - would be unproductive. I will stop responding your comments now, including other parts of your last post. And frankly, after seeing this, i could not care less about what you think about me, this topic, or anything else. This statement alone indicates one can not trust your judgements, you know.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but you really brought it on yourself here, man.
Loved Day of Defeat: Source <3
Been a long time.
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And another time you are wrong. Severe damage produced more stealing because it gives both players a kill count but steals 20% of rewards from the player who severed. Especially for your thoughts to maximise rewards it should be a downgrade.
Just to make sure I understand the key issue without having to read all this:
Did the OP ever get a ban for inactivity in air RB?
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100% no - and nobody else did.
There is no automated system for “inactivity” when a player is airborne and not sitting on the runway. And GMs can’t claim that there would be temp or perma bans (for access to the game) for “inactivity” as they are not in charge for this stuff.
Then the whole issue is pointless, as it concerns itself with an injustice that does not exist.
Thread can be closed!
I never had, which is why 1st post specifically mentions the source of information about those bans. I made this topic not because i personally ever suffered such a ban, but because i feel for anybody who did. They were punished in error. It’s not just and not right.