So you belive that all americans ever did, was replacing DU with tungsten ?
Effectively meaning that Polish M1A2 SEPv3 or Ukrajian M1A1 has the same level of protection as the “Swedish” M1A2 30 years ago?
DU Armor Packages in general are referred to as ‘Heavy Armor’ in documentation. Thus why you’ve got HAP-1 (M1A1HA), HAP-2 (M1A1HC/M1A2), and HAP-3 (M1A2 SEPv1/2 & M1A1 SA).
All 3 of which are ‘Heavy Armor Package - X generation’
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Pretty much yes. A lot of the modern tank armor values are in fact based off the Swedish trials if I remember correctly.
Yes.
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We know that Sweden Abram used for trial didn’t have DU in it armor scheme. There is conflicting sources on export abrams as some states they do have DU armor while other says they don’t and use other materials, such as Tungsten but is prone to brickle when penetraded.
Ukraine Abram will not be equiped with DU as stated, polish probably not too.
You will have to ask someone who is really an Abram expert, which im not.
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“ Answering your concerns regarding spall liners, MBs and Aircraft” has 1,106 replies.
“Hull Armor of the M1 Abrams” has 1,017 replies.
Most of these are valid criticism and sources proving Gaijin’s points wrong.
Yet… nothing. It really feels like no one is listening up there.
Shameless plug to what I believe to be the only solution.
We can’t beat them at their own game, so let’s change the rules:
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Whether the hull has DU or not really doesn’t matter. What matters is how the protection improved. Until we can show how the protection increased, we can’t get Gaijin to change it. We need numbers, which we likely won’t have access to, or we can’t change the results.
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The best you can try to do then is contradict the SUB-1536 stated limit by mentioning SUB-1536’s true intention. You have to remember at the end of the day, we are talking about a Materials License. The government wants to have a list of all things expected to be in the presence of significant (measurably) radiation. TACOM has a license because it handles radiological material, and must maintain the standards of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954 and it’s amendments regarding the usage, storage, and modification of it. Make it known to Gaijin that SUB-1536 is a Materials License for a Tank Laboratory, and that the license they want is General Dynamic’s SUB-1564.
In other words: of course SUB-1536 is going to have specific language regarding training and testing, that’s what a research lab does. General Dynamics Land Systems has a license (SUB-1564) as well with even greater liberties afforded to it, and looking through it’s safety inspection reports, clearly handles a large amount of DU whenever they get a new batch of tanks at the Lima plant.
Edit: It also needs to be mentioned that the hulls which contain DU are classified, and a procedure was already in place at the time of the application (5 Hulls era) for the declassification of the process, to be done only at Aberdeen. We know this because the turrets that have DU are not classified, and are easily identifiable by their turret serial numbers.
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Don’t forget about
With 1700 replies
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why would anyone even think the javelin couldn’t pen a russian mbt? Their tanks are garbage.
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it isnt about numbers, its about gaijin keeping all u.s vehicles nerfed and behind the russians tech tree. Using their fake numbers and made up " beliefs " M735 still not fixed , TOW 2B virtually useless, Hellfires still dont work correctly, stingers still not fixed Bradley still has none of its ERA, and still doesnt have its titanium roof, the HSTLV whatever it is because its not the vehicle that was made, the Apaches and basically over tiered, gaijin still wont give them the AP rounds to kill tanks , we are still on the A-10a with its terrible zoom rate , AGM 65d missing 40% of their penetration, F-15 without aim 120s meanwhile fighting planes 15 years ahead of it.
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Because they don’t care about facts only “Beliefs” it doesnt matter what source you show them, it willl be declined and ignored.
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It’s a common sense bro. We can spend whole day on it.
This should be a priority for researching official documents. Congressional reports, DoD statements, Field Manuals…
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idk if its true but this guy who was a tanker talked about the Abrams here’s a link to the vid if you want to watch TikTok - Make Your Day
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I believe him. That being said he is unfortunately not a acceptable source.
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and this counter acts what redeffect said about the Abrams not having spall liner
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Didn’t need him to show Red effect doesn’t know what he is talking about.( although i appreciate his time in making the video to counter act red.) Red Effects whole basis is a photo doesn’t show a soft interior. Spall liners don’t have to be soft fabric interiors. Look at Line-x and CAMAC as examples. He stated it isn’t exactly Kevlar makes me think maybe it is aramid?
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Literally look at off-the-shelf steel body armor.
That spalls! And people need to not get hurt by that spalling. How do they do that?
Rubber-like coatings
(Also helps against corrosion, which would also be a nice bonus for Tank armor)
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That might possibly be line-x coating it.