26 potential kills is 26 kills.
Over 300mm of pen is significantly higher than the 256 of 2S38.
HE-VT & IRT don’t increase lethality against armored targets thus do not impact BR.
APHE is worse than darts, as seen with the 8.3 PT-76-57.
You’ve listed zero downsides to the HSTV-L, as everything you listed would not impact its BR outside of it being given a new round that would make it 12.0+.
I can do that too, 3 57mm darts per target means the 2S38 is easily getting 49 potential kills, right? Or should we go up to 148 kills potentially, since the damage profile of both darts are literally identical.
APHE is tooootally useless “buddy”, please conveniently ignore how Death Sphere McGrenade does an order of magnitude more damage than comparable darts.
Overestimating HSTV-L ammo and vastly underestimating 2S38 darts, as is usual for RazerVon. Let me guess, you’re using 60 degree penetration at 0 for HSTV-L and 60 degree penetration at 2km for 2s38? Just to obfuscate things for no good reason, probably.
This just in: 1/3 the fire rate is actually an upside, less than 1/4th the ammo means you won’t be ammo racked as often and identical post-penetration to weapons of both lower caliber and significantly higher RoF is not at all a downside!
Yes, clearly the 2S38 is sooo much worse in terms of firepower. If you understate the parts where the 2S38 is inferior and ignore the inferior parts of the HSTV-L when compared to the 2S38, there’s clearly no competition!
Except when someone catches you lying. Oops.
2S38’s equivalent darts are on CV9040B.
Also going off memory right now, so if I mistook my numbers slightly, it’s cause of that.
The fact you accuse everyone of lying proves you’re wrong.
Accuse everyone of lying?
Are you everyone? Well, look at you, most “important” person on the planet, speaking for everyone, eh?
You continue to ignore the part where all three of these vehicles have identical post-penetration profiles to each other. Except one has 30RPM, one has 90 RPM and the last has even higher fire rate.
APHE still does ten times the damage of these darts, so it still means the 2S38 continues to have the best post-penetration of these tanks.
Oh… 2S38 has an 8.3 round that’s worse than using darts… wow.
Begleit is 9.3 with APCBC.
Weird how everything without darts are lower BRs.
You fail to actually understand the crucial differences aside from ammo load that separates these AP, SAP and APHE firing vehicles. PT-76E is lower BR for other factors other than firepower. The same applies to the Begleit.
And “worse than darts” is only applicable when you don’t factor post-penetration. Nothing lesser than a Maus or IS-4M can ignore 57mm APHE to the side, and a single penetration of 57mm APHE is death.
80mm more penetration for 57mm darts from 40mm ones does not allow more weakspots to be punched through. 50mm more penetration from 57mm to 75mm does not allow more weakspots to be punched through.
If the darts have to shoot at the same spots, to do the same damage with the same accuracy, then the only thing that matters is fire rate.
Begleit is a lower BR because of APCBC & worse ATGMs, that’s really it.
Has thermals, speed, slightly smaller size. Also corrected the pen post.
Could be a German 2s38 soon. Had an HWS which functioned also as an IRST, and had the capability of using APFSDS rounds. Sadly there isn’t much information on the rounds as it’s still classified…
I just read the entire thread, top to bottom and one thing not mentioned here is the amount of god damn smoke made by fast firing guns
Yes, this is caused by other nations too but…
HSTVL shoots every 1.5 seconds, not nearly enough to keep someone constantly blinded
2s38, every .5 seconds
Actually hitting and killing the 2s38 once its shooting is very tough
Turbine whine should be quieter at distance too
Comparing the HSTV-L to the 2S38 disregards the 2S38’s design.
It was designed as an SPAA but currently does not have its APFSDS count restricted like every other SPAA in the game.
This should be changed.
There is no APFSDS restriction IRL & there’s no evidence of it being a SPAA IRL.
The tank is designed to engage low flying aircraft and drones.
Why would you take a full load of APFSDS to do this?
You wouldn’t.
There is no restriction on loading the Otomatic with full APFDS either, it’s a “restriction” in that it’s what the tank would take IRL when its purported role is as a SPAA.
Development and testing is underway of ‘smart’ ammunition for the 2S38 Derivatsiya-PVO self-propelled anti-aircraft gun (SPAAG), according to manufacturer Uralvagonzavod (UVZ).
That is a commercial website, specifically an editorial website.
Not a source for facts.
Otomatic does have a restriction in the autoloader mechanism, it doesn’t for hard storage; however War Thunder doesn’t have a system in place to limit what can be placed in autoloader systems.
It’s quoting the manufacturer.
If you have evidence you’d wish to contribute that labels it as a vehicle for a different purpose I’d love to see it.
War Thunder has first stage ammo loading as a feature, it’s present on both the 2S38 and the Otomatic. On the 2S38 Gaijin thinks you can replace a 57mm shell in ~0.75 seconds. Meanwhile tanks like the Chally suffer artificially nerfed rates for “balance” reasons.
Gaijin seems to only want to balance vehicles from nations that aren’t Russia.
Otomatic has 2 separate tracks to load ammunition into.
One cannot use APFSDS, thus it’d be incorrect to allow full service.
2S38 only has one system, and it replenishes like HSTV-L’s.
Also Challenger isn’t nerfed, nor “artificially”.
Weird of you to claim that ALL Soviet vehicles aren’t Russian.
The time it takes to replenish the Chally’s ready rack is artificially high.
Hard stowage is limited as you said.
The 2S38 should have its APFSDS ammo load limited, the intended role of the vehicle is not anti-tank. It should not be allowed to abuse War Thunder’s arcade gameplay with a gun that wasn’t designed IRL to engage MBTs.
Dude, you need to stop with this misinformation.
There’s no limitation of 2S38 & HSTV-L IRL.
Chally 2nd stage reload is also 18 second, which is on the faster side of things.
Reloading FROM 2nd stage into the gun is around 9 seconds.
And a list of Soviet vehicles that are incorrect in a manner that makes them worse:
Mig-29: Energy retention.
2S38: All the ammo should be part of the staging like HSTV-L & currently isn’t.
R-73s still have a chance of spiraling to the ground after launch.
Yak-28’s engines still starve with little downward pitch; it can still tri-pod on landing.
Mi-28NM has existing weapons missing from pylons that can equip them.
Sprut-M has a worse reverse speed than the previous Sprut.
Non-bug related hilarious:
Mig-29SMT is the worst at dogfighting above 11.7.
Pantsir is defeated purely by being fast [above mach 0.9].
BVM’s turret is quite literally penned by 10.3s, just avoid the ERA like people avoid the turret cheeks of Abrams.