Keyword is open. “Small” open maps are still vulnerable to CAS and stuff.
Big NO from me. It should be quite the opposite. Maps should provide even more flanking routes.
2 Likes
Poland is in a pretty good spot until you reach BRs of 9+.
Hurtgen on the other hand really needs a redesign.
Place more buildings at the outskirts of the city on both sides and block lines of sight to the spawn from both top and bottom parts of the map.
If someone wants to waste their time going around the edges of the map, let them do so, but they should have zero lines of sight on any of the spawns, strategic zones or direct routes between them.
Yeah, slower tanks struggle a lot with these speedy mobile light tanks that can flank effectively
Even in top tier, these maps aren’t fair.
Tanks like Challenger 2 TES will struggle (to be fair it’s one of worst tanks in game)
They don’t really struggle. I hardly ever get shot from those flanks. They aren’t overpowered per se.
The issue is though that at Hurtgen specifically those small windows enemies can shoot through are so random that when you happen to get shot, you most likely thought you are pretty safe while enemy was so far away that you had 0 chance of actually noticing him without looking for him specifically.
The issue is that people mostly think CAPs are the main goal, but they are not. CAP is a game mechanic to ensure for game can be finished before time runs out.
The main goal is to capture terrain so one can safely take and hold CAP or CAPs. To capture terrain, one should also focus on flanks and not only spearhead through the middle.
Caps are things that win you the game. If a single tank can pretty much lock down the enemy team so that half of them die while leaving spawn or trying to approach the cap, something is wrong with the map.
And it’s not like you can even approach the flanking tank, since there is a flat open field in front of it. The only reliable counter to those tanks is CAS
Yes but as I have said they are game mechanic which ensures that game can be finished before time runs out.
I have seen numerous times one side which had all the caps (apart battle game mode) still loses as they didnt control the terrain. Terrain control is primiray goal which ensures you to capture and hold point needed to win.
One can apporach flanking tank if he is on flank too because if flanking tank can hit you, cou can also hit him.
That’s not how it works.
Let’s use hurtgen as an example. If enemy is on that hill at north edge of the map, he is sitting in hulldown and likely behind vegetation. You on the other hand can only apporach him by driving by the middle of open field, with a small ditch at best.
He is stationary - while you are on the move.
Stab may equalize it a bit, but on non stabilized tanks it doesn’t matter that you both see each other, he can effectively fire at you, while you can’t fire back at him.
It sure does. Why did you allow him to be alone on that hill in the first place? Your side could also have someone on that hill. I can get to that hill from either side.
As I said control terrain to control capture points. So if that are controls terrain you fight for that area too, not only capture points.
I could be fighting in the city or on the other
flank to the south or whatever. This isn’t the only position on the map. And if you have played this game for more than like 20 hours you should know that you can’t rely on your team what so ever.
It doesn’t matter which team is benefiting from this position. It is still overpowered.
Even if both teams have tanks there, one side will eventually lose and effectively get locked into their spawn because of a single tank. A single minor skirmish at the outskirts of the map shouldn’t ruin the battle for everyone else.
In this example it isn’t “control the terrain”. It’s control 2 overpowered positions and make enemies unable to leave their spawn.
It’s not having to control the area that is a problem, it’s about the fact that all you need is to capture 1, preferably 2 positions and whoever dies inside the city simply can’t go back in and the whole team is dead lost.
Yes you could not but that doesn’t mean spot is OP if players don’t pay attention. Players don’t pay attention it is result why some spot seems to be OP.
Its OP only because team has tunnel vision on capture points and less on terrain.
It is terrain control at is finest. Controling vantage points is more important than caps itself.
As I have said I have seen numerous times team loosing due to focusing only on whats in front. Frontline is wide as map allows it. Disregarding part of it could cost you.
Again, having spots and flanks to control isn’t an issue.
The problem arises when you can literally spawncamp while being like 500m+ away far away from the highlight zone. It shouldn’t happen.
It doesn’t matter you theoretically can kill the guy, he will still cripple your team.
Bad players in team also serve a purpose. Even if they play badly, once they reach battlefield, they take shots, they limit the movement options for enemies and occasionaly disable the enemy or get a kill or two. If you don’t even let them get out of their spawn, you essentially play without half of the players in your team.
Even if all good players manage to leave the spawn and play normally if all the newbies die while leaving their spawn you will still be severly outnumbered and will most likely lose.
Leaving the spawn is the moment where you are the most vulnerable, so by design unless your entire team just falls apart and enemies encircles your spawn, they shouldn’t under no circumstances ever be able to shoot you there.
Those M18s or Sdkfz 234/2s that run around the map and start spawncamping within first 3 minutes from the start of the match are a meme at this point, such a thing shouldn’t be possible.
If a spot has decent cover and allows you to fire at the exit from the spawn it will always be OP just for that reason, regardless of all other circumstances
Spawncamping is different issue.
I am talking about flanking spots which control frontline. So if I am on the flank shooting into middle of the map or AO enterance its terrain control and that spot is not OP no matter how you look at it.
I got tons of kills Polad with Obj 120 by sitting in the open ground on the flank just because players are tunnel visioned for caps. They just spawned and rushed forward. If someone just looked towards my position I could have been easily taken out.
Same is with Hurtgen. Shooting into spawn is bad but taking control of the hill to control middle of the battlefield is not OP.
Except you can fire right at the only exit from spawn from the same place. So it is - in fact stupid and needs to be adressed
Spawns are mostly protected from the hill as they below the ridge. From the south side you can shoot directly into spawn.
But as I have said spawn camping is completely different issue. Butchering maps doesnt help. In fact it makes it even worse with less corridors out from the spawn.
Who said i am advocating for butchering maps?
I don’t think placing a bunch of buildings to cover the exits from spawn and a bunch more around C would butcher the map.
You can still go hug your map border or whatever, you just can’t execute the entire team crossing into the city from their spawn anymore.
And you can do that only from hillside closer to your part of the map. Meaning your team failed to protect its flanks. So yes you want to butcher map because players don’t want to pay attenting and take control of flanks too.
Yeah, let’s let anyone spawncamp from safe distance just because you happened to get a full german team in a 6.0 matchup and you have zero light tanks that could potentially survive getting to that spot.
Amazing idea.
You seem to forget that not every vehicle is made to flank and even if you happen to have such tank in your team you can’t guarantee he will know what to do.
At this point you just show your blatant bias so i will end this discussion here.
Both sides have the same chance to gain control of vantage point. Vantage points and flanking are core of any tactics. So you want to remove that just because you want to dumb down the game and have danger only in front of you. And you are talking about bias. Really???
Also Puma can get there easily. I use it in my 6.3 lineup.