How to fight a MiG-21 in a Phantom?

I am struggling at fighting MiG-21s up close in the F-4E

I feel like I should be able to beat it in the rate fight because I have giant wings compared to it but I just can’t, am I missing something?

I guess it’s historically accurate.

I read that already and it didn’t really tell me anything other than just a brief comparison.

I’m kinda thinking I should be able to do something because the Phantom has quite literally double the wing area of the MiG-21 so it would be able to generate more lift down low where the atmosphere is dense, but maybe said lift is just countered by how damn heavy it is

Triumph of thrust over aerodynamics moment

Someone in the chat advised me to use the airbrake when turning, but I haven’t tried it myself yet.

F-4 is faster than the MiG-21, so you can just fly away

EDIT: F-4 also rates way better than the MiG-21

You maybe could try to dogfight a Mig but only on min fuel where the F4 can literaly stand on his engines.
But… You don’t dogfight such planes in a F4, especilly bises.
The 2nd thing, you don’t airbrake a Mig21(maybe as a last resort, together with rolling around to make him overshoot, but youre still probably ded - he will easily get back on your 6), he can just pull high AoA and lose speed even faster, just make sure he doesn’t get on your 6 in the first place since in that position you can’t do too much.
The F4 should be able to rate fight but it doesn’t. And you don’t want to get slow(unless youre alone)
If you want to rate fight then use the F8E, you can two turn a mig(still needs some attention since in the first turn he will usually get his nose on you). Or the F5E if you want to dogfight in general
Play it like a f104 with more nose authority - Keep you speed, launch AAM’s, you fly in and out
The AIM7E2 are suprisingly fun to use at this br.
And the 3rd thing - BS Br compression - you will face F16’s Mig29’s and such, I’d skip 11.0 for now
(It’s like 75% Full uptier smh…)

F8U/F8E or F5E are they way to go, best Premium Removers ever :P

You see the issue lies in your first sentence. ‘up close’ in a Phantom is not somewhere you want to be for any length of time.

It’s a powerhouse that needs to stay fast - limiting your close proximity to the shortest possible window as you either go for a gun-pass or a missile shot. The moment you are no longer fast (e.g trying to mix it up with a Fishbed) you are an easy kill. F-4s take a while to get their speed back.

If you don’t land a hit on the first attempt don’t get sucked into a turning engeagement. Extend away and decoy any snap IR missile shot of his with flares. Use your relative power to climb a bit, maybe draw them up high enough to Sparrow him when you turn back to re-engage.

I admittedly have more experience in the British FGR/FG Phantoms but the basic rules of ‘stay fast, attack, extend, attack, stay fast, extend, attack, stay fast’ apply to all Phantoms. Did I mention stay fast?

Phantom isn´t really suited for dogfighting TBH, atleast compared to MiG-21Bis. Its more than twice as heavy as the MiG with full fuel (up to 3x with max weapons!), and its engines dont give it as much thrust to weight ratio as the MiGs. It also has lower top speed and climb rate, but if i recall correctly, it retains its energy better than MiG due to the wing design. I would try to keep the distance from MiG thanks to long range Sparrow missiles, which is a capability MiGs doesnt have. If you really want to get close to enemy Fishbeds, try using the boom and zoom tactics, (getting to the enemy preferably after/during a longer turn in which MiGs loose lots of their energy and shooting your Vulcan into their top/bottom if using cannon, and if enemy is flying in straight line use AIM-9s), hitting one or two enemies and runnig away ASAP without loosing any speed. If you really need to dogfight MiG-21 in your F-4, i would try to slow down, use flaps and make MiG bleed its energy (gettig rid of Sparrows also helps, as one weights 200kg, but i would drop them only if i know i wont need them anymore), and if MiG gets on your 6, try to have it overshoot you by slowing down drastically, or make it use up all of his ammo (it has just 250 rounds, which is enough for only like 4 secons of fire), but beware of the R-60s too.

Maybe, but since I mostly fly the F-4E in sim the uptier thing isn’t much of a threat. Dogfighting isn’t really a thing I usually do, I normally try to B&Z but I know that, for example, I am not beating a MiG-23 in the rate fight. So the 21s I usually fight are MFs or S’s. I’ll try some of these, thanks

Not in my experience

Someome plays on phantom outside asb?..

Unfortunately I cant comment much on the F4E specifically, but in the FGR2/FG1 my usual strategy is to maintain max speed and avoid a turn fight. Rely on superior speed and BVR to win fights. On turn when with a teammate.

I used to dogfight MiG-21’s in my F-4F and i would beat them in a vertical rate fight.

Fight in an Eggshell read it and use its strategy 1 on 1 not 1 vs more than 1

Yes fight in an eggshell

Airbreak always helps in turning.

You can outrate them easily. Dump your ordinance if you have. Use your energy to dodge the first circle

But be aware, a low on fuel mig21bis is going to mangle you or anything else even