How player skill with SPAA effects the CAS problem

Game Discussion Realistic Battle
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2567

When folk like you complaining because you refused to adapt repeatedly ruined what I was minding my own business enjoying in Air RB and Sim EC years ago, yes it damn well is.

I want the nerf cycle broken, and after observing the people who always seem to be doing the complaining, I realized those people were the issue.

Therefore, to stop their ability to damage the game further via their own warped selfishness, make their whining solely their own damn fault and DROP IT is what I arrived at.

Anyone who wants to counter CAS should be able to easily do so, no different than the general ease of use of any other tank class. But anyone who has the tools and willingly chooses to ignore them should NOT be given any pity whatsoever. That is how I arrived at:

  1. make the existing ground-to-air tools effective even in average player hands by any reasonable means necessary
  2. make sure every player has all practical tools in their deck by default so they can’t dare claim “but I didn’t have the tools to defend myself!” Yes you did, you didn’t read the situation well and didn’t choose to use them.
  3. make sure those tools are also potent enough at defending themselves against tanks in a non-nuisance manner so that those tools will actually be taken to where the CAS likes to congregate.
  4. remove the entire concept of planes being powerups people “earn,” so that people now have no excuse not to try using Fighters to defend their team, and so Fighters alone don’t go hungry with them being first spawns but CAS still being dumb powerups.

It fixes the problem - the ability of the people who hate CAS to complain about it by laying all possible means to help themselves at their feet, and walking away. Then if they want to help themselves, they can. If they don’t, nobody will look at them as victims anymore, but as the fools they always were from the very beginning.

1 Like
2568

Your post was just ignorant and dismissive. You would have been better off just ignoring the posts you don’t agree with instead of posting an unfounded opinion. It’s just ridiculous.

You and others say “we” should never expect TO mode because it’s a non-starter for Gaijin.
Yet the suggestion to gift anyone a free CAP or CAS is even more of a non-starter.

You do not like all the complaining players do about CAS, and then go ahead and suggest all spaag should get APDS. APDS was removed from vehicles BECAUSE of all the complaining.

1 Like
2569

One was confirmed by Gajin to be an impossibility. The other wasn’t.

1 Like
2570

Tbh a free random stock aircraft like in naval would be alright.

2 Likes
2571

Except Combined Naval already has this very concept. That’s where I get it from.

Top tier Combined Ground saw the default backup tank and default backup SPAAG thrown in everyone’s decks, directly inspired from the above concept in Combined Naval with planes.

Thus the game is more than halfway there already. My idea isn’t as wild as you think it is.

Because I do not see CAS vs Tank as inherently any more unfair than the moment you get ambushed by someone who kills you with another tank before you are able to react. In either case, you’re dead.

I do not like the endless loop of complaints about CAS because of Snail’s consistent response being to “just nerf the weapon, it’ll go away now…” which doesn’t work, and never has. All that does is punish folk in other aviation modes for the problems in this mode. I have seen the same people keep on bitching endlessly no matter what CAS weapon gets changed, therefore I blame the people doing the bitching FAR more than I do the Snail. And therefore people like that need a piece of “digital duck tape” put over their mouths forevermore, because they never won’t find something else that’s “unfair” to bitch about - it’s an entrenched victim mentality problem, it’s not even about the CAS really. CAS just happens to be what said mentality is fixated upon for the time being.

Thus, the solution I arrived at removes all possible logical excuses for those types of people to complain in the first place, unless it’s entirely by something of their own choice, in which case there is no excuse to complain inherently. The ball is kicked into the court of the people who do the complaining - now it’s their choice to either kick it back or walk away.

This is another recurring problem I see based on player behavior. People clearly want to shred tanks with rapid-fire guns. IFVs already do this all the time - so why punish SPAAG when in many cases they have the exact same guns and rounds? Just remove the part that’s actually annoying - the barrel damage that allows them to casually spray at you from mid-map and render you helpless to shoot back - and then allow if not expect all SPAAG to hunt tanks whenever they are able, intentionally adjusting BRs so they are all able to do so.

If people don’t want to be melted by SPAAG, then they need to focus not on the SPAAG but on the maps in rotation and collectively demand bigger maps where SPAAG cannot so easily get that close.

2572

If it were up to me, the Combined Naval/Combined Ground default units (regardless of their type) would be fully spaded and free to repair, but with fixed preset loadouts players cannot change. If they want to change the loadout they need to grind said plane or SPAAG themselves.

2573

Unfortunately if it’s spaded from the get go, it sorta incentivize people to not really grind it even with fixed loadout.

2574

Such structure, such posture, such grandstand…

Stats are able to be interrpreted a number of ways, and I’ve always made mention of this. Statshark doesn’t take into account assists, caps, or anything towards what sort of target was got, or anything related to pushing the team to do better or anything other than KDR and time played…

It’s a very vague metric to base everything on that sites graphics… They look good, but they’re not definitive.

What’s consistent is what they’ve been showing you… It’s not as if they’re showing anything of thier bad matches.

And you lap that up without a question.

And, those players may not be actually good, or consistent with thier usage…

Again, see above.

You interpret them to show that, because that’s what you’ve been shown…

It’s not an assumption as such, it’s an assertion…

Indeed, but I doubt that you’re being shown those videos or clips to actually show that…

I’d highly advise you to stop looking for arguments to jump on merely for the fact that you have issues with someone that clouds your vision so much that you jump before looking.

Again, you’ve only been shown clips and videos that favor the poster, and you’re taking thier overall stats without a question because you’re already wanting to take that view, nothing more…

As I said about the KDR/time played, you taking that as an average overall, and making out that it was against tanks, and that there mustn’t be anything else being done…

It’s not an agenda, it’s an opinion I hold because I understand how you can manipulate data, whilst looking at someone who is deadset on being upset and driven to taking on board an angle that doesn’t actually make sense.

After all, just look at the dogpile here… Some of these guys are openly hostile toward me, and often that can even be me talking confidently around the place…

It’s not hard to rile up some to be upset by merely recommending to players to do something, where others claim bias, game bugs, and dev manipulation are the reason they don’t like things…

This sort of issue is that ULQ posts up those footages, to make the other TO mode proponents spam the crap out of the thread with a big old “SEEEEEE IF YOU CAN’T SEE THAT THEN YOU’RE IGNORING IT AND ARE A DICK!!!” because that, is what they want to see and it backs up their ‘’‘problem’‘’.

1 Like
2575

I don’t think that would be an issue if the random spawns were CAP only. People who care about planes would be free to grind them for CAS options and for better CAP options, whilst people who don’t care for planes can’t complain about having to grind two TTs.

2576

So you are suggesting players will want to use “default backup” air units that - using the ground units as an example - are stock? Stock tanks are garbage. Don’t see how stock air units would be any better. This is hardly a reasonable counter.

It’s cute that you think this is a thing.

You are playing an online game.
Better get used to complaints or you will become a very frustrated and angry person. The complaints will never go away no matter how much you wish it so.

2577

Free unguided cas should be a thing on free vehicles brs. And if player wants advanced options like agm/gbu etc - they are free to grind tree.

Stock chaff and better stock missiles on more aircraft would somewhat solve that issue (stock 2 sparrows on top of 2 aim9 on f4j for example). The only issue is crew g overload skills. No expert crew sucks. Maybe devs will give at least free experts considering they gave us free jets with free aced crew in nuclear thunder.

2578

Don’t forget, this is for ALL ranks, not just the top-tier like they do with the ground freebies.

So getting a (random) free stock (like the P-38-G1 at BR 3.3 for example) is not gonna help you much in dealing with the fully spaded CAS.

1 Like
2579

Guys I would like to remind people to debate the topic not the user and if you can’t do that either move it to DM’s or leave each other alone.

2 Likes
2580

Where’s the debate situation come from though as I thought this was a discussion forum.

The debate angle is what brings it to be a competition where proof needs to be produced to prove someone wrong, which is where the issue truly stems from.

2581

There is no competition with proper discussion as the goal is to talk about how things really are, not how someone feels they are or that it is more important to prove someone else wrong rather than proving how things are.

Good discussion forum operates on principles of debate.

We should go back to the topic as forum moderator said. If You have any data to back up what You are saying or any kind of proof/poll about it, I will be happy to talk about it. If not, feel free to talk about Your feelings but don’t get irritated that people will challenge Your view of the game.

SPAA in many cases don’t have enough effective range in order to do their job. I have explained, showed and talked about it multiple times.

2582

^^ Example here… It’s not about debate, discussion is about taking on and expanding views compared to shutting down and shouting down, dogpiling and constantly nagging people about how bad or wrong they are, to shove them into submission.

When I’ve made mention of various things, they’ve all noped them out of knee-jerk reactionism, and been closed minded to any option other than that of what they want.

This isn’t a debate forum, it’s a discussion forum, and this silliness that they flex and goad on, is exactly why there’s a serious trouble with a certain group left to run riot compared to actually engaging in good faith.

That was why I even returned to this thread because it was just attack after attack on one person, for even speaking their mind.

1 Like
2583

And even now he’s added a heap of ‘padding’ to make himself look like he’s done nothing.

This is why there’s a problem, and I wouldn’t accept PMs from any of these guys as all they’re doing is trying to rip everyone a new one, just to flex their own egos.

This, is where I came back in, and I stated it directly from the start.

1 Like
2584

So again, when plane comes to bomb me isn’t it me vs plane?? We have 1 vs 1 situation and tanks have 0 chance. Are you going to argue about this??

Who said “I don’t know how to deal with CAS” i know, i would use AA or my plane, but problem is i can’t BEFORE i die.

You don’t have answer, or you don’t want to answer because. Because answer on that question destroys your suggestion.
Let me answer for you: tank dies, if pilot isn’t sossige and doesn’t miss.

You really don’t see difference bro??
If tank destroys me, it’s because he outsmarted me, outplayed me, outcamped me… It’s because I was not checking corners, minimap or rushed too early and too far, or just skill issue. If i played right, i had everything to win this engagement, but with CAS nothing this has impact, doesn’t matter i see him or not, doesn’t matter I’m more skilled or not I’m going to die anyway.
If you don’t see difference, i don’t know what to say anymore.

Gaijin already give people free tanks, free AAs, free buckups did it changed something?? As i can see no.
Again, forcing people play, what they don’t want will never work.
When community asking for changes is good thing, you’re saying we should accept everything as Gaijin gives us? Without asking for any changes. When people where asking BMPT nerfs, they were “crazies”?

Again, What’s the problem to ask Gaijin for changes and are we (i mean you too and everyone in this forum) “bitching” when we asking for changes?? Hell this whole forum was created to exchange experience, bug report or ask for changes.

So who don’t agree with you have no"common sense ", and are insane and should just "shut up ". Because you are right all others are wrong. Of course mate.

As i remember, CAS complaining never stopped since ground RB got CAS implemented.(Yes ground RB starter with TO then Gaijin decided it would be good idea to add planes).

That’s oblivious claim. We already have AAs and our plane + high tier free AAs, did it changed something??

1 Like
2585

You’re more than welcome to debate I never said not to I am saying to debate about the topic not the user its clear you and other user have some beef which is fine but either move it to DM’s or just leave each other alone if you can’t agree to disagree.

Mods are not here to say someone is more right than another we’re here to make sure no one breaches the rules.

1 Like
2587

Devs are not generous enough to give free vehicles at all brs for now. It should be a thing on all brs to fill gaps in every player lineups without painful grind but we will probably have to wait for that.

Chance to win is better than completely sucking over and over again. And on lower brs cas is inferior to fighters in terms of flight performance. With exceptions of corsair or bearcat ofc.