Doesn’t change a thing as again, people want to attack real players, otherwise they would use air units in air modes as it is much more profitable.
The best part that the potential could be used if there was a place for people who just want to play tanks, as no matter what changes to SPAA, what nerfs/buffs You are going to do to planes, they will still have no chance against the air while in a tank thus problem will still exist.
I know that You have ground players MH4UAstragon, but in the end if You want a proper combined mode and unnerfing of the air, TO is the only option.
I’ve had a lot of fun playing the Ostwind II as SPAA recently. I’m frankly rubbish at aiming SPAA, but I think that’s actually not a very important skill to be somewhat effective with it. Old fashioned gun SPAA is a whole different thing to higher tier SPAA.
I see a lot of SPAA players sitting in spawn, firing at planes halfway across that map. That is NOT how to play SPAA effectively. The enemy knows where you are, can dodge your shots easily enough, if they even get close at all, and you are probably exposed for strafing easily (engine off ground level strafing runs from behind spawn are DEADLY!). Plus, one even bigger problem is you’re probably not near where the enemy CAS is trying to attack, unless your team has been pushed back to spawn in which case you’ve already lost.
Instead, I try to get out of spawn and into cover. Push up towards the action, where you expect planes to be, but not so far as to get overrun by enemy tanks.
Every action with SPAA should have an intention. If you are firing, why? You can bait enemy cas into strafing, revealing your position and you are a squishy open topped target. Or maybe you’re firing at an unsuspecting plane which hasn’t seen you. Maybe you’re trying to deter a plane from attacking your allies near you. Don’t just empty your guns for no reason.
After you fire, move, unless you want your position to be known. Even just to a different side of the same building you’re using for cover can be enough to confuse enemy CAS players.
9.3 has the coolest tanks imo, but it’s practically unplayable since there’s no CAS to clear out campers and and undertiered/downtiered tanks like T-72A. This results in every single game just being a steamroll with no back and forth.
At WW2 BRs, there’s often a good amount of back and forth between point captures, and steamrolls are much less common. This also incentivises spawning multiple times, which means CAS also helps reduce ODL.
That is a job for sure, but not a healthy one which people can agree on is good. Rather, some see it as “justified” and of course people on the receiving end go screech on forums about how “unfair it is and whur muh tenk-onli-mod3?”
Hence why a full third of my overall CAS reform proposal is devoted to giving CAS (and tanks where applicable) new and interesting objectives.
Returning bombing targets to tank maps, bleeding ticket chunks if killed.
Turning cap zones into spawn points for the team controlling them, and current spawn points into caps, both with AI-controlled fortifications surrounding them that must be killed to begin de-capping them. Some will be unarmored AT guns that MG spray or small HE can kill, others will be Pillboxes with working guns demanding large-caliber rounds to crack or slipping in smaller shells through windows. All of these AI targets bleed ticket chunks if killed, and respawn for the team controlling the cap once it flips. CAS can help soften up caps by killing these so friendly tanks can advance.
Supply lines of trucks which start at the bombing targets and drive towards the enemy rear spawns. Killing these does not bleed tickets, but every truck which arrives safely adds tickets instead, potentially doubling the starting ticket count if the whole supply group arrives safely.
The artillery support tanks call upon would be actual map targets for CAS, using player tank vehicle models wherever applicable. This could potentially allow for artillery vehicles which have no place as direct-fire vehicles due to the inability to shoot directly forward. Destroying these also bleeds ticket chunks.
Every AI target eating a piece of ordinance is one less player tank eating that ordinance and proceeding to leap onto the forums to cry how supposedly OP CAS is.
It’s not OP, it’s just terribly implemented mechanically and the counters don’t work well.
Speaking of scouting, I wonder how good would it be considered to be if the markers from it only appeared on the minimap and did not have 3D floating arrow diamonds.
That would prolly be ok. Another idea is make it so planes can only see scout markers on scouted SPAA. This means playing SPAA might actually come with risks, and normal tank players will be safer.
Scouting in general needs a complete overhaul imo.
You use the term “shooting at” when you really mean destroying.
SPAA already can cripple medium and heavy tanks by tracking and barreling them - if not outright destroying them (see the slower firing but heavier caliber spaa).
Based on your attitude above, I’d say we have nothing further to discuss.
Yes, I should have clarified - I really do have no problems with SPAAG shredding and destroying all but the heaviest-armored behemoths from the side.
I find barrel damage to be an obnoxious mechanic that utterly cripples heavy tanks and armored TDs vs any kind of vehicle, and would gladly see that removed entirely from the game. I also find all forms of cupola shots to be equally bullshit. Same with MG port shots. Same with obvious armor holes only a particularly spammy SPAAG would find and penetrate.
But if you cannot accept SPAAGs destroying nearly any tank from the side no differently than every other tank can do from longer ranges and greater variety of angles, then yes, you do you, man. IMHO, we have seen quite clearly that the average player wants to shred tanks with their SPAAGs, and that past nerfs to try curbing that behavior result in SPAAGs sitting uselessly in their own spawns if they get used at all. As SPAAGs would have short range even with the proposed lead indicators I suggested, their drivers would have to move up to the front lines to help stop CAS from mauling their team. But those average players simply will not do so unless those SPAAG can reliably destroy the vast majority of tanks they could encounter from the side like any other light or medium with a semi-inadequate gun would.
IDGAF if you “dislike my attitude,” as well - I’ve seen the cyclical pattern of idiotic CAS weapon nerfing play out so many times and fail to really solve anything, while egregiously harming the playability of CAS aircraft in every other game mode. Thus I want to see the ability of that portion of the playerbase to scream like that curtailed in a way they have no means to argue against, in addition to actually fixing the real problems driving the general anger and frustration with CAS at large, which (re)buffing the intended counters to the point where they can’t find reasons why not to use them would accomplish. All while intentionally not giving them their prized tank-only mode, just to spite them for all the vehicles their whining has fucking ruined. And, then with their ability to resist destroyed, start undoing the damage their whining caused.
I have nothing but utter contempt for anyone who claims any given CAS is “OP” without damn good justification. A weapon nerf can often harm many other machines with the same weapon which aren’t causing issues, or harm ones based on the one causing issues, and that’s just considering this one game mode. With how spaghettified this game’s code is, unintended consequences happen all the time. Furthermore, the ironic thing is that in many instances, the people who chant “nerf” proceed to then act even dumber, still get killed by what they nerfed, and then call for it to be nerfed further. That is why I see the vast majority of nerfs as “illegitimate.”
A rare example of a legitimate case would be Helicopter DIRCM, which in its current state renders them immortal towards nearly all SAMs. The counters which should be swatting helicopters with ease are not working. Another one which was implemented a few years ago was curbing the unrealistic controllability of Vkhir missiles, which lack the control surfaces required to act like they did.
Above all else, I want to see the game’s long-term rots fixed, some of which the blame lies squarely at the feet of the playerbase and not the devs. Therefore to fix those in particular which are the fault of the playerbase, those elements must be dealt with, or any attempt at fixing those issues has the risk of backsliding.
Grad school is what it is. It’s a far greater slog than War Thunder could ever claim to be, but much like War Thunder, boy is it rewarding when it works.
Thing is, you can only have your attention towards one part of the map at a time. Most planes will spend most of their time looking towards tank hotspots, namely capture points, and the areas between caps and spawn.
Sitting in a forest away from the action will almost never lead to getting bombed unless A) you angered a lot of people, or B) you were scouted.
Imo, scouting should work like the stationary hit markers, and the hit markers should be removed.
Yup. Toptier can be summed up as, you either have the russians on your team or on the enemy team, and if it’s 1 competent russia main, someone eating KH-38ML cruise missile salvos from a su-30 or su-34 every other minute until someone goes to the airfield and shots it down. Doesn’t matter how many SAMs are up or how skilled you are as a SPAA user, if they even got a basic knowledge on how to use the GNSS guidance on KH-38MLs to their advantage you are in for a horrible time on the ground.