I would like a technical clarification regarding the ground vehicle damage model.
The attached screenshots show a very simple situation:
I am using a Panzer III F with PzGr.39. The target is a Panzer III E at roughly 15 metres. The round penetrates the frontal armour without difficulty.
The hit camera then shows secondary fragments travelling through the fighting compartment. Several fragment paths visibly pass through or immediately through the area occupied by the cannon breech. The gunner, who is partly shielded by the gun assembly from my direction of fire, receives enough damage to become red.
The cannon breech, however, receives no visible damage at all. The opponent is then able to fire back immediately and destroy my vehicle.
My question is not whether a red crew member is allowed to continue operating in Arcade. I understand that this is part of the current game mechanic.
The question is specifically about how the fragment damage itself is calculated:
Are the cannon breech, crew members and other internal modules individually intersected and damaged by the actual server-side fragment trajectories, or is there an additional probabilistic calculation that determines whether an intersected module receives damage?
If every fragment/module interaction is calculated separately, how should the situation shown in these screenshots be interpreted?
The visible fragment paths reach the gunner despite the gun assembly being partly between him and the point of penetration, yet the breech itself remains completely undamaged.
Does this mean that:
- the X-ray model of the breech does not correspond to its actual damage-model hitbox,
- the fragment paths displayed by the hit camera are only an approximate reconstruction and do not represent the server-side trajectories,
- fragments can geometrically intersect a module without registering damage because of a separate probability or damage threshold,
- or there is another mechanic involved?
I am interested specifically in how the server resolves this sequence, because otherwise the hit camera appears to show a physical interaction that is not reflected in the resulting module damage.[img]
- Is at least partly correct,everything you see is client side, but what happens is server side, and this game is pretty prone to minor but somewhat common desync
However i also dont believe that the gunner explicitly survived because he was shielded by the breech, but moreso that he just didnt get hit enough/take enough damage, though it is hard to determine with only one angle
And the breech may have simply not taken enough damage from the few spall that hit it to change to even yellow
I’m almost certain that internal damage is based on some kind of randomness (a rather artificial one, by the way), so when hitting a vehicle, you’ll do different damage even if you shoot at the exact same spot. This means that sometimes, even if you aim at the barrel’s chamber, it won’t break, allowing the enemy to return fire and kill you. Honestly, I don’t know why the devs do this. I think it’s for balance so that everyone can kill players, even if it’s assisted.
The flight path of the the splinters show clearly that they hit the cannon, if you look at the amount i can not understand how it should not have enough hits to be calculated. I rather think this is not correctly calculated. Look at MG gunner, commander and loader, all dead, gunner red but can shoot immediately after the impact. and the breech is not even yellow… smells a bit fishy for me.
yes the spall and fragmentation patterns are random in the spread, but consistent in number of fragments as far as I know
i cannot correctly determine how many hit the cannon from a single pov, do you have hit analysis from this shot from this battle? not that hit analysis is super great either as it is also based on the same desync prone client replays
? nobody is conspiring to make your enemies just barely not die, its just bad luck bro
Even more strange…i went in the hitanalysis of the replay and the shot is not even showed? The M2 who i shot before is there but not the III E. And i think you misinterpreted my line “smells a bit fishy for me” Look at the second picture closely, you see one fragment that hits the turret ring. You see at least 3 hitting the breech. Now look at the third picture, the turret ring is yellow from one single fragment but nothing from at least 3?
Then you might actually have died before you fired according to the server ( Client ↔ Server de-sync), try watching the server replay (not the client replay) to see what happened.
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breech has more hp than horizontal drive maybe
also more than 1 fragment hit the horizontal drive, multiple had to go through it to get to the turret crew
That’s what I want to believe, but when you’re constantly having bad luck, you start to think it’s premeditated. Bad luck is when you go into an area and an enemy intercepts you, or when you stop to fire and your sight is blocked by a tree, or even a shot that misses and you can’t disable the gunner or sniper. But when you’re shot and killed as a sniper, when your gunner’s cannon and engine are destroyed by a shot that grazed the side of the turret, while you’re firing at an enemy completely sideways in the turret, and instead of killing the loader, the sniper, and destroying the cannon, you only kill the loader, and then you die, and this happens almost constantly.
I am 99% sure that physical that modules that are not crew take more damage to be destroyed. If you play with any solid shot or heat shell, you will notice that you get breach kills more often with turret side shots because all the spall is focused in one direction rather than a sphere.
I personally never rely on breach or turret drive kills with aphe because you either need a direct hit at that specific module or multiple shots to the same area
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Just watched the server replay, exactly the same as client replay. Time between my shot landed and enemy fired back was about 2 seconds.
No Circleati watch the pictures you see only one to the ring but 3 to the breech.
literally like all of these fragments probably went through the horizontal drive before travelling onwards
but like I said, its hard to tell from a single POV
AkTuAly… the game does “fudge” probabilities (ie; RNG) based upon non-direct factors like crew skills, and of course never just because you have a 500% booster running.
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yeah, stuff like vitality is obviously, was just ignoring it for brevity