How I would improve naval

Game Discussion General Discussion
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As many people know the naval game mode in war thunder is has very few players, is overall very poorly implemented and overall boring to play, this is coming from somebody who enjoys naval :)
So here are my suggestions for improving the naval game mode in war thunder.

Suggestion 1: Rework the Coastal and Bluewater research.

Currently in game the Coastal and Bluewater fleets can only be researched by ships in the same tree, this greatly slows down research of, for example a destroyer, if you want to spawn a coastal ship to get an early cap at the start of the game to help win the match, this limits the amount of time you can spend researching your Bluewater fleet ship by 1/3 each battle. So therefore I suggest allowing Bluewater ships to be able to research coastal ships and vice versa, like with tanks researching Helicopter (this change would make more sense than that as well).
Not only would this change speed up the research for each tree but it would also encourage players to take coastal ships which many do not as they want to get the cooler top tier battle ships rather than top tier frigates (which are basically destroyers but worse in war thunder).

Suggestion 2: Add submarines to the Tech Tree’s.

This one is pretty self explanatory, submarines should be added to the game.
Submarines will help diversify naval gameplay away from throwing shells at enemies 10km away and will make it a much closer battle and more engaging, ships will have to constantly watch radar and fire at enemy surface vessels, submarines will have to play tactically and silently strike the enemy.

Adding submarines will give destroyers with a focus on anti-submarine warfare much more use, it will encourage more ships to be played rather than players going with a ‘ship with biggest gun is best’ mentality.

The battle of the Atlantic event showed us submarines can be balanced well and that models are already in the game. Most naval tech tree’s have 3 or more lines available for the subs to be added in, not to mention there are a lot of WW1, WW2 and cold war subs available to be added, many with unique and fun game play separate form just torpedo firing at nearby ships.

Suggestion 3: Rework the game modes.

Currently in game we have 3 different game modes for naval: Domination, Conquest and Encounter, I believe Conquest and Encounter should be reworked significantly.

Conquest rework idea

Currently in the conquest naval mode, the objective is to control one large central point in the middle of an open map, like this:
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This is a terrible game mode, you spawn roughly 12km away from the enemy in open ocean and you lob shells across the map, meaning whoever has the heaviest ships usually wins. As such this mode in my opinion needs a huge rework.

I would make this mode more like enduring confrontation, having multiple objectives for each side, such as: Convoy ships to sink, Carrier’s to sink, Aircraft patrol squadrons to shoot down, wolfpacks to destroy and finally control an enemy point to win the game, a little like the ground mode, battle.

Teams should spawn 25km away from each other, they should have one small objective at a time, from the list above, and upon completing the object the enemy team loses some tickets. The main objective is to destroy the enemy teams fleet and capture their strategic zone, signifying a clearing of the sector in a vast ocean.

Encounter rework idea

Currently the Encounter mode is a battle in which you must sink the enemy teams cargo convoy, which in theory is a great idea, but in game it is poorly done. Currently maps look like this:
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The convoys are made of 10 cargo ships that sit statically behind the spawns of either teams, this means they can’t be fired at until the player ships are destroyed in which case the game is over, never once have I seen a game be won by sinking the convoy.

I propose that these maps are expanded and the convoys are on the move with spawn points how they were in the battle of the Atlantic event, either side of the convoy. This would allow players to get to the convoy’s, they wouldn’t be easy target being on the move and it would allow more flaking attacks from small boats and submarines if they are added.

Suggestion 4: Rework airplane spawns

Currently aircraft of any nature can be taken in battles, and have an air spawn.

I believe only carrier based, or naval patrol planes should be allowed in the naval mode, since its really not fun to be in a naval bomber and have a Me-262 come out of nowhere and obliterate you before you get your torpedoes away.

By only allowing people to bring carrier based planes, each map could have a carrier or two added, which can be sunk, not allowing the use of enemy planes, or forcing them to take off from airfields that are in a disadvantageous position, eg further from the battle. If patrol planes, such at the Catalina, can’t take off from carrier’s, there should be an air spawn just behind the carriers, or a float plane spawn next to them.

This suggestion is really just opinion based so let me know what you think about it.

Thanks for reading this long bit of text, there are a few other suggestions I could add such as, allowing modern ships, allowing naval helicopters, adding more anti-shipping missiles etc, but currently I don’t think the game is ready for those.

If gaijin just puts a little bit of love into naval the play base will increase and we can get naval to a state it should be in, a fun game mode enjoyable for all, and not a boring grind fest for a biggest boat wins mode.

Spoiler

M class submarine when gaijin???
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Boat Sink GIFs | Tenor

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Biggest change they need to start with is the spawn points. They need to much larger, further from the objectives and more spread out. The number of kills within the first few seconds of the match is concerning

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That, and/or ideally start matches in cover, with no enemies “detected”. While having an idea of what direction your adversary is coming from, being able to see them is both unrealistic and not very fun.

While this might limit the maps that could be added, it might cure the problem somewhat.

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Could even be a bit of a fog bank that clears after the first minute or something

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Yup 100% want this we already have the mechanic for it so just add it to naval research.

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They also need to change the battleship RP costs, HMS Hood costing 390,000rp is way too much, should be around 250,000rp at least.

The higher tiers research cost scales insanely

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Not to mention the HMS Invincible being 175,000RP followed by the HMS Hood being 390,000

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Yeah, it makes me dread the 7.3s probably coming soonish

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Another set of vehicles with absurd RP costs because Gaijin wants to pretend every tree needs to take a certain amount of time.
Coastal is useless.
Aiming is tedious and annoying.
Map design sucks, and some of them are just open water because that’s fun somehow?
Balance isn’t there.
Planes are way too powerful.

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HMS KGV will cost you 500,000 RP and 17 snail prayers

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Don’t forget the Human sacrifices and subsequent blood rituals

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Aircraft in naval are actually far from overpowered,as they barely get to reach ship due to AI gunners and HEVT sniping them out from 10km away.

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At higher BRs maybe, but at lower BRs it take me 2 minutes to do more damage than I do in 10 minutes in a ship.

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Aircraft being OP depend entirely on the ship they are fighting tbh, but a Lancaster with its 12,000lb bomb sitting at 6km altitude is pretty OP either way

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Indeed it will change into doing nothing at all for hours on end.

The recent naval event only worked because it was a specific scenario made to include Submarines.

Subs in general play will make the game even worse.

When I play it is the side that has the best PT boats and Japanese DD’s that wins.

But even without that - the whole point of BB’s is to be the biggest - so why wouldn’t you expect them to win???

25km is not a “vast ocean” - it is still well within the maximum range of BB and many cruiser guns, and it is far too small an area to have “squadrons” of aircraft and aircraft carriers and still make sense.

There are 2 versions - 1 has static ships, the other has a moving convoy that comes to a halt. there are 2 different maps (you show 1) for the static game, and 1 for the moving convoy version

Nonsense - there are clear torpedo paths from several km on the map you do not show, and the moving convoy version has no protection for het convoy at all until it reaches “port”

It is not so common on the map you show, but very common on the 2 that you do not.

Because land based a/c never fought ships or what? tell that to the Royal Navy Force Z, or either side in the Mediterranean of Scharnhorst/Gneisenau in the Channel, or Tirpitz in Norway…

In fact land based a/c took part in many more ship-ship battles than carrier based ones AFAIK - the only cases I can think of of carrier a/c being present when ships were shooting at each other was task-Force Taffy in Leyte Gulf - the escort carriers vs Japanese BB’s and cruisers.

Other than that there is a better case that should be no aircraft at all in ship-ship action!

all in all it seems to me you either do not have much experience in naval battles, or you have selective memory loss

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First of all, great work formatting this, idk how you messed it up this bad.

All of these are my opinion, adding subs I think will be a great benefit to naval, a lot of people seem to agree, subs wont dominate the game, and they will keep destroyers on their toes and allow them to be more useful in the higher tiers.

PT boats can make a big difference but most often than not people don’t like to play them as they don’t help research the more popular blue water ships and getting ripped to parts with AA guns isn’t that fun

So, I didnt know about the second one, sounds just as bad and my point still stands with that one

This part is pretty unreadable, so ill address the part I get, clear torpedo paths for several kilometers to hit static convoys is bad, one side launches torpedoes then goes elsewhere, 5 minutes later they get some kills, boring.

Player will provide protection to the convoy, or gaijin could add a few AI escorts to assist with that

This is not at all what I said, this was also a point that is hit or miss, I said that. The idea was to encourage more naval aviation and make these planes worth while, what is the point of a naval gamemode if I can take a Lancaster with a 12,000lb bomb and destroy battleships from 6km up, in what world is that fun.

Never said it was, 25km is enough to fit what I suggested, it would also be harder for BB and Crusiers to hit targets at that range, helping to stop spawn shooting. AI naval bombers having to take off from carriers behind the spawns, maybe 30km from each other, would have plenty of room to operate.
This is just a weak point, in ground you would not have challenger 2’s fighting T-90’s at 300m as evidenced in a certain environment, realistic distances isn’t what war thunder is about, it is an arcade game, if you want to have them play naval EC

I don’t play naval as my main mode, mainly because in its current form its terrible and the wait times are long (hmmm I wonder why), I play navy enough that I believe I can make informed suggestions.
No idea what your memory loss comment is about but ok.

The entire point of the thread is to be a discussion, so far you have looked at my idea’s, rejected them because you don’t like them, not given constructive criticism and failed to suggest ways you would like to see naval improved. If you think naval is fine as it is currently, I would like you play sit in a naval queue for 5 minutes and come back to me.

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Personally, I think the easiest and most effective proposed improvement is a more detailed division of spawn points.
tbh the current situation where, for example, Frigate, Corvette, Gunboats, and DD all use the same spawn point needs to be improved.

I believe that adding a more divided spawn point would create more diversity in Naval, so that the infamous M-class would not start a slaughter at the boat spawn, or the K2 or Albatros (F543) would not finish the match without arriving on the battlefield.

Of course, there are some concerns with this, such as the fact that some boats are difficult to classify, so need to choose carefully… but I still think it will be better than what we have now.

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Yeah I fully agree, I think perhaps have a Coastal spawn, Submarine spawn, if they are added, a blue water spawn, then a battleships/battlecruiser spawn. something along those lines at least.

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For a long time now, I have thought that it would be necessary to divide the planes, or give them some kind of blockade in air, tank and sea battles…

Air combat is a very toxic environment for aircraft supporting tanks.
For sea-type aircraft, there is no use again…
In naval battles, the only thing that has a use in the current state of AAA ships is a very fast fighter-bomber, with a half-ton bomb in tow, extremely wild maneuvering just above the sea, otherwise all the others are long swept out of the sky before they even get close to the ships…
Aircraft carriers for sea battles for sure, both for carrier-based aircraft and they could also replace the mother ship for seaplanes…
I’m not sure if they would be suitable for a coastal navy, but for blue water for sure…

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It’s really not at higher BR’s when you have AI SKR’s that start targeting you from 10km out and never stop. Plus you also have the AI super AA Pr.206’s if you get in closer. Which also coincidentally never seem to overheat or expend their ammo. If a player hits me in their SKR at 10km away, good for them, hell of a shot. But I am absolutely sick of AI AA smacking down aircraft on both teams from these ridiculous distances.