Smin mentioned that this was the counterpart to the american AV8B (and yeah, it is. this is where the harrier program deviated between the MD harrier II and the British II harriers)
They are the most comparable aircraft and they should be balanced off each other, especially as its being added as a counterpart
I have no idea what you’re actually asking but the T10 literally had BOL modelled (but not working) when the vehicle was first added. it was taken away causing this issue
BOL was nerfed and nerfed hard at the start of 2024.
It is modeled ahistorically for balancing reasons and should have a flare performance similar to that of large calibre flares but with a short burn time. Though its not really a flare. Instead its a large cloud of pyrophoric material that is designed to counter IIR seekers. Between its compact nature / large CM counts and highly effective nature vs most IR threats. Its one of the best CM systems in the world.
Gunjob has a bug report in for BOL flares to be restored short-term to what they were (mostly) before the nerf which was standard calibre flares. But in the future, the “flares” should be much stronger:
BOL chaff also wasnt unaffected and its mass was reduced by 75%. Some speculation whether the standard chaff packet used for all aircraft includes the casing weight or not, but if it does and if the stats for the BOL chaff does as well, then any difference is mass is due to BOL having a plastic casing and not a metal one like the soviet one does. If it doesnt then BOL Chaff is about 18% less than regular chaff, but far from the 75% reduction its gotten
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/B8OvCzjZ7E91
My question is what does BOL do that is so impressive?
Both are Harrier IIs at the same BR. It is literally as close of a comparison as you can get. Its like comparing the Mig-23ML to the Mig-23MLA
Give the Harrier T.10 (the one we are talking about) more flares (the IR countermeasures you use to decoy missiles). with BOL is approximately regular 140 countermeasures (320 BOL is about 1/4 the strength of a regular flare) and for the math geeks, 320/4 = 80. 80 + 60 (internal) = 140) still less then the AV8B(NA)
This^^^ cool footage too ive never seen that before! (i cant like im all out for today)
Yeah, they look awesome, but only visible at night as well, which is another useful thing about them (so we’ll need night matches if/when they are modeled)
So an 11.3 or 11.7 aircraft… with more cms than top tier aircraft of certain nations that hold 96 large cms. Yeah lol.
Makes 0 sense to be below 12.3 if it gets that.
Harriers are either god tier or decently balanced.
So say it stays 11.7, how is a MiG-23 for a good example or F-4 supposed to deal with the harrier? Just gun and run? And hope he doesn’t hear you screaming towards him?
Keep in mind the MiG-23M only has 12 cms which have proven to be quite bad vs aim-9Ls.
At this rate, might as well give the F-4S Aim-9Ms or something lol.
you do this thing where you used your superior speed to your advantage, radar and radar missiles. not everyone is a free kill waiting to happen. also also, if youre willing to accept some of the things we told you about the harriers IR signature, you may have learnt of a way to deal with him. (pss, im not saying to abuse the massive IR signature, but you should totally abuse it if you see a harrier)
im not going to tell you how to play the game. if you can deal with an A10C at 11.7 with 480 countermeasures and the lowest IR signature of any jet… yeah fill in the rest
The Gr7 had 700 CMs for 15 months and was considered underpowered at its BR so it got Aim-9Ms instead of a BR reduction. This was before the BOL nerfs. Its BR did not change until the decompression where it stayed at approximately the same relative BR to everything else.
With their IR signature issues, missing features and still underperforming FM. They are actually weaker than they should be.
How is a T.10 with only 60 CMs meant to deal with an F-4 or Mig-23MLD?
Given 9Ls are underperforming a lot at the moment and the Mig-23M is supersonic… I dont really get this. You have 3x More CMs than you need to defeat the T.10s 4x Aim-9Ls and enough speed to never get in range.
Using this logic I could argue the Su-39 should be 12.3 because the Tornado Gr1’s Aim-9Ls are easily defeated by the IRCM and 192 CMs it carries. Its nonsense argument
You just defeated your own counter argument.
The Su-39 is slower than the tornado and turns worse.
The ircm isn’t as useful as you often claim. A MAW is FAR more effective
A MAW requires little effort to be useful, an ircm does require effort to be useful. Sure it’s “infinite” until it’s destroyed. But irccm aams ignore it.
The Su-39 is a higher br… but in the case would be smited by the T.10 no?
Describe for me what YOU think an ircm does on the SU-39/25T
You say it requires “effort” to be used?
And the su39 turns tighter then the tornado so youre wrong
Su-39 is slower yes, which is why it has R-73s AND is a lower BR. But the Su-39 actually turns a lot lot better.
Rear-aspect MAWS like on the Harrier Gr7 and T.10 is far weaker than the IRCM, the MAWS will release CMs which might defeat the missile but mostly just warn you something is behind you giving you a little time to react. IRCM prevents rear-aspect shots entirely and given the BR of the Su-39 still has a lot of aircraft with rear-aspect only IR missiles. This entirely defeats an entire class of weapon systems carried by many. Like on the Phantoms, Draken, F-5s, etc.
This is completely and entirely untrue. At the very least I know for 100% fact Aim9M is just as affected by IRCM as Aim-9Gs and Aim-9Ls are from encounters in the Gr7 with the Su-39 in SB.
R-73s + 192 CMs + IRCM
vs
Aim-9ls + 60 CMs + R-MAWS.
Id still be inclined towards the Su-39 holding the advantage.
Giving the T.10 2x BOL, would make it no different to the Su-39 vs AV-8B(NA) that already exists on live.
I have to frame this lmao
Passively jams ir aams in a rear aspect of about 10 horizontal degrees if I remember correctly. If you turn slightly though an aam just hits you anyways.
Yes you have to position yourself to be a be able to use it more so than the T.10.
I also missed the tornado part. Was comparing the T.10 to this in my mind tbh.
You should frame it alongside the RAF docs for it being unflareable if the target is on reheat in nearly any aspect
In a dogfight, the T.10 would clear. Once youre past the merge, any decent pilot would walk all over the SU-39
However, for ruski main guy, airRB isnt dogfights, its furballs. R73 is amazing at gettjng guaranteed 3rd party kill, whilst you’re low to the ground avoiding radar missiles, and ircm to avoid rear aspect shots!
Fun times!
I’ve seen Su-39s get thrown around quite well. In a sustained fight the Su-39 would loose, but it would also loose to a Harrier Gr1 at 9.7 if we were talking about pure gunfighting.
Yeah, If you are trying to dogfight in an Su-39, you are playing it wrong. Its like saying the Tornado F3 should be 11.3 because its loosing dogfights with the F-16s
Just like the Germans killed x5 the amount of Sherman’s produced?
But if the RAF doc is true, let it come to the game, but all 9L aircraft go up 1.7 brs at least. See your problem?
