- Yes.
- No.
- In a future Dutch/BeNeLux techtree.
- In the French BeNeLux sub-tree
- Other (Please explain in the comments).
- I said “No” in the first question.
Today I want to suggest an a unique ship for the Netherlands.
This is the “Pantserschip” HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp (1904)
What is a “Pantserschip” you ask?
It’s a Dutch term that litterally translates to “Armour Ship”.
Online sources refer to these ships as Coastal Defence Ships, but I highly disagree with that since Dutch Pantserschip’s are fully ocean going and would go from the Netherlands to the East Indies (Nowadays Indonesia) all the time. So saying they are a Coastal ship is just wrong.
So what are they then? Their speed, weaponry and armour make them more closely related to Armoured Cruisers, so the best term would be to use that, or even better a Small Armoured Cruiser.
HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp in 1925
Source: Foto's
History
Spoiler
HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp sailing together with (What looks to be) HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën (1909) in the background
Source: Foto'sThe period around the 1900’s is a very interesting time in Naval history, where each nation was trying out different designs for increasingly larger vessels. The Dutch ofcourse didn’t want to be left behind and so they to starting designing larger more powerfull vessels.
Starting in 1893 the Dutch Navy started constructing of a new type of ship, a so called “Pantserschip”. This is a Dutch term for a small heavily armored cruiser. The Netherlands had a lot of colonies all around the world, so these new “Pantserschepen” had to be fully ocean going vessels and would travel the world to these various colonies.
By 1903 the Dutch Navy had six “Pantserschepen” in service. These were three Evertsen-class and three Koningin Regentes-class ships. Then in 1903 another ship would be laid down. This was the HLNMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp. She was a bit of an odd one out. First of all she was not part of a class of vessels, although her design is almost the same as the previous Koningin Regentes-class.
She was around 200 tons heavier then the Koningin Regentes-class, she was longer then them, but kept the same armour. And unlike the Koningin Regentes-class which had a torpedo tube mounted in the bow, HLNMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp moved this one to the rear and put it on a swivel mount. All in all, like I said, she’s a bit of an odd one out.The ship was launched on the 15th of June 1904, and would be put into service on the 5th of April 1906.
The rest of her carreer was sadly quite uneventfull. The Netherlands stayed neutral during the First World War so there were no Naval battles between the Netherlands and Germany. Most of her carreer was taken up with patrol missions to Dutch colonies.She would be decommissioned in 1927 and scrapped soon after.
The crew of the HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp having a break on the front deck next to the 24cm No. 2 turret
Source: Foto's
Design
Spoiler
A top down view of the 24cm No. 2 turret onboard HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp
Source: Foto'sThe Dutch “Pantserschip” classification is pretty much the same as an Armoured Cruiser, only maybe a little bit smaller then most Armoured Cruisers other nations were making.
HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp was 100,78 metres long, had a beam of 15,19 metres and a draft of 5,69 metres, and displaced 5,210 tons. She had a crew of 340 men and was able to reach a top speed of 16,5 knots.
The main weaponry of the ship was two 24cm No. 2 guns. These were guns made by Krupp, and the ship had the two guns mounted in two single turrets. One fore and one aft.
The guns had a firerate of around 2 rounds per minute. And compared to the older No. 1 guns, the No. 2’s had a slightly higher muzzle velocity of 850 meters per second.
Ammunition for the 24cm guns consisted of AP, SAP, HE and two types of Common shots.The secondairy weapons seen on HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp was pretty much the same as seen on the previous Koningin Regentes-class. That being four 15cm and eight 7,5cm guns.
But there was one small improvement, the 15cm guns were mounted in fully enclosed No. 5 turrets, instead of the No. 4 turrets as seen on the previous Koningin Regentes-class which were open at the rear and had just an armoured gun shield to protect the gun crew.
A nice shot of the fully enclosed 15cm No. 5 turret onboard HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp
Source: Foto'sAs for the 7,5cm guns these were pretty much setup in the same way as the Koningin Regentes-class. Two were placed on each side of the ship, two more were next to the bridge and the final two at the rear just behind the rear 24cm turret.
The final guns onboard the ship were four 37mm Hotchkiss guns. There was one on each side of the ship placed on the same deck as the 15cm and 7,5cm guns. And the last two were located near the bow of the ship, below the forward 24cm turret deck. The guns were placed behind two small doors which could be opened to fire the guns.
A photo of the 7,5cm No. 1 guns onboard HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp, located on the sides of the ship
Source: Foto'sThe final bit of weaponry onboard the ship was three 45cm torpedo tubes. One torpedo tube was mounted at the stern of the ship. It was located on the crew deck and thus was above the waterline. > The tube was mounted on a swivel so it had a wide firing angle at the rear.
The last two torpedo tubes were mounted under water near the bow of the ship. The tubes were placed in the bottom deck of the ship and were put at an angle of roughly 45 degrees. So the torpedoes would not fire straight forwards, but would instead go at an angle.The torpedoes used were Whitehead Type XIIa and Type XIIb. The XIIa was used for the rear above water torpedo tube, and the XIIb was used for the underwater torpedo tubes. Both torpedoes had a 60 kg warhead, and a range of 1.000 meters at 31 knots.
A top down view of the crew deck, note the rear firing torpedo tube mounted on a swivel mount at the stern of the vessel
Source: | Nationaal Archief
A top down view of lowest deck of the ship, note the two torpedo tubes near the bow of the ship
Source: | Nationaal ArchiefThe armour of the ship was 150 mm armored belt, which would lower to 100mm at the ship ends. The upper deck was 12,5 mm thick, with the main armored lower deck being 50 mm thick.
The citadel of the ship was protected by a 105 mm armored plate that was at an 45 degree angle. This plate connected up to the 50 mm armored deck, which was also part of the citadel.
Finally the turrets and barbettes were protected by 250 mm of armour.
A blueprint of the inside of the ship, showing the internal armour layout
Source: | Nationaal ArchiefAn aircraft crane was also used on the ship for some time, sadly I don’t know exactly when this was done, most likely around 1925. The crane was of a rather simple construction and was mounted on the rear mast. There was room for a Van Berkel W-A floatplane just behind the rear 7,5cm gun turrets. I’m guessing a plane could be carried on each side of the ship, so in total she could carry two aircraft. The ship did not have any kind of catapult system however, the aircraft would have to be lowered into the water with the crane and then take of on it’s own.
A blueprint of the aircraft crane construction of HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp
Source: | Nationaal Archief
Ingame
Spoiler
We currently don’t have any armoured cruisers, or similar older style vessels ingame. But I do strongly believe that ships like these can work really well ingame.
When we look at the future of Naval in War Thunder, not all nations have a large number of battleships/battlecruisers that can be added. And going from a cruiser to a battleship is a huge step. That’s why I think ships like these can work nicely to fill that gap. They might not have the most amount weapons, or the best AA weapons, but their armour alone will allow them to take a lot of punches!
BR wise I this ship would work best at around 5.0. Maybe if Naval get’s more un-compressed these BR’s can change.
My first choice would be to have this ship be added into a independent BeNeLux techtree. But ofcourse the BeNeLux has been added to France, so this is now the only option where Dutch vehicles will go to. But it must be said that the Netherlands and France have nothing in common, and do not make sense to combine together ingame.
In the French Naval tree this ship would feel right at home. France certainly liked to make some weird Armored Cruiser type ships around the 1900’s, so gameplay wise HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp would fit right in! Also if the BeNeLux ships were to get a dedicated line in the French tree then this ship would serve nicely as one of the top ships you can get for the Dutch (Since neither the Netherlands nor Belgium had any battleships, so after these Armored Cruisers there wouldn’t be anything bigger)
Specifications
Spoiler
A side view cutaway of the ship
Source: | Nationaal ArchiefDisplacement: 5,210 tons
Length: 100,78 m
Beam: 15,19 m
Draft: 5,69 m
Installed powerplant: 2 x vertical tripple expansion steamturbines, 6 x Yarrow boilers (6,400 hp)
Propulsion: 2 x shafts
Maximum speed: 16,5 knots
Crew: 340 menArmor:
Belt: 100 - 150 mm
Upper Deck: 12,5 mm
Lower Deck: 50 mm
Citadel sides: 105 mm at 45°
Barbettes: 250 mm
Turrets: 250 mmArmament:
2 x 1 24cm No. 2 guns
4 x 1 15cm No. 5 guns
8 x 1 7,5cm No.1 guns
4 x 1 3,7cm Hotchkiss guns
2 x bow 45cm torpedo tubes firing Whitehead Type XIIb torpedoes
1 x stern 45cm torpedo tube firing Whitehead Type XIIa torpedoes
1 x Aircraft crane, with two Van Berkel W-A floatplane carried. (Max speed 135 km/h, 1 x 7.92 mm Lewis machine gun in a gunner position)
The floatplane crane was only on the ship from around 1925
A top-down view of the ship
Source: | Nationaal Archief
A beautifull photo of the 24cm No. 2 gun turret. This is the second largest gun ever operated by the Dutch Navy, only getting beaten by the 28cm No. 3 onboard the HNLMS De Zeven Provinciën (1909)
Source: Foto's
And there you have it! I hope you enjoyed reading about this amazing machine.
See you on the battlefield!
Sources
Spoiler
Main sources:
- Nederlandse pantser- en pantserdekschepen - TracesOfWar.nl
- HNLMS Marten Harpertszoon Tromp - Wikipedia
Extra sources:
- “Marine-torpedodienst 1875-2000” book, by J.M. Mohrmann
Van Berkel W-A floatplane:
Photos:
Blueprints: