How does that make sense. KA52 can carry straight up more weapons then the Mi28.
1 Like
It highly depends on the angle enemy comes from.
You aren’t a fidget spinner and will take you some time to actually turn and shoot the missile. Preflaring also gives them more time to gain distance.
R-73 isn’t some magic weapon, I’ve seen it getting flared consistently in side aspect at way below 2km of range.
That would be correct if your A2G loadout wasn’t like 90% laser guided, thus forcing you to babysit it for 10-15s at a time.
Even if you check your surroundings, you may fail to spot the enemy plane as you’re in the middle of the missile guidance.
That’s a lot of ifs right there. You need to travel at near your rip speed, he needs to be pretty slow (800km/h), not going straight away and not changing direction at all and also not popping a single flare. Terrain also comes into play for that long range shots.
As I said, it’s a massive gamble that just looks like a hail mary attempt.
It doesn’t really have all that much to offer when going against fighters, that is if they’re being operated by a non-lobotomized pilot that won’t eat R-73 from 4km away lol.
It also gets very small ready rack so that 5s reload won’t last forever, unlike on M1s.
It surely isn’t a gimmick as it can eat darts at fairly close ranges.
CB being lower than some CR2s is just egregious balancing. That thing only sits at 11.7 because it’s a premium.
I think you’re underestimating some of those, especially TKX (P).
Only thing CR2s do better are cheek armor and a better round, in everything else it’s on-par or a clear TKX (P) victory.
Against M1A1 they have better cheek armor and better thermals.
In which its decent energy retention and dogfight ACM mode can help with.
Agreed, though the slower the enemy is (and closer you are to it), the more likely it is going to track through flares.
Yes, most of the ordnance is laser-guided.
Fortunately you don’t have to continue to guide it in if there are bigger problems to deal with, such as an enemy aircraft behind you.
I’d be surprised if an enemy can creep up on you and start firing their guns within a kilometer without you noticing.
This isn’t like with helicopters, where the closing distance is much much faster, and thus much less time to react.
This also why it’s important to check for aircraft, then AA, then helicopters, and then deal with tanks. You then can routinely check their air spawn by using TWS for no surprises.
And I was willing to test its Air-to-Air performance against other vehicles it commonly faces in a regular GRB match (F-4S, F-5E, Tornado, AJS37, F-4E, etc), but it seems like you don’t have any - other than maybe the MiG-23.
If you want, I could record an unedited duel with some of my friends with such vehicles.
I have managed to kill at least 5 aircraft with vikhirs in head-ons, if that says anything lol.
Like I said, the gun is good and the R-73s make it difficult to let them extend away and use their energy.
But this isn’t it’s main task.
The fact that it can do this along side other things makes it pretty good in my book.
Yup, I forgot to mention that.
Most darts at that BR are fast enough or has enough pen to make it fairly redundant at close range. Especially if you consider that it needs to see the projectile for at least 300ms (from what I remember) for it to be able to intercept it. So a shell going 1400m/s means that any closer than ~420m (which most fights occur way closer than that), then it can’t do anything.
Although I am sure you knew that based on the fact you said ‘fairly’ close ranges.
Correct me if I am wrong, though.
This may not be entirely the case at longer ranges, like 1000m away.
Yes, I can agree.
Possibly - although it could also just be because of their statistics (which is a flawed way of balancing vehicles, as you can see).
Yeah, you may be right.
I would say the 11.7 Challies could be 11.3.
They’re definitely better suited in hull down positions but worse in other aspects, and so that’s its niche at 11.3 then.
- I meant the KA-50 stay 11.3, a lack of thermal severely limits its abilities unless it’s an open map.
- The Tiger UHT has an above rotor mounted camera, meaning it can hide 99% of the vehicle.
- Most low tier helicopters can’t touch the battlefield due to spaa.
- I died to an Alouette in an obj.906 the other day by his 7.62s, I’ve killed other helis with those 7.62s they’re not bad. The burst mass is usually higher than most other helis. It’s also a tiny heli.
I have a good bit of time in sim / arcade as well.
I know how to combat spaa, the biggest problem are full uptiers + planes, which render helicopters useless.
This is if you have all those keybinds available, some of us play on controller. I use sight stab as a keybind.
That’s the way it is. All helicopters have advantages and disadvantages. And are therefore on their appropriate BRs when fighting tanks and AA.
Example: The Tiger UHT is hard to catch when there are no jets in the air. On the other hand, his FnF rockets have an extremely limited effect. If someone don’t believe it, try it out. You can only destroy tanks from the front with enormous luck, and from the side with at least 2 rockets. If he reacts and fogs up, he saved himself from the situation…
For the Pantsir you need at least 3 pars. The other AAs burst as quickly as light tanks.
The KA 52, on the other hand, has a harder time with AAs. But if he catches a window in which AAs are busy or there are too few on the field, he can reap great loot with the Vikhr. Something similar happened for the other 12.0 helicopters.
I can’t say much about the Spike helis. The Spike is also a big gamble, but seems to me (I use it with the Puma) to be a bit more reliable than the PARS.
The jets are the problem. Or rather the number of them or their weapon loadout. I mean, I really enjoy my EF2000. But I don’t understand why he’s allowed to wear 12 Brimstones in the GRB. It may be that technically he can do that, but it would be easy to simply issue a rule here.
Equivalent rules then for all nations. The SU34 e.g. with a maximum of 2 KH38 MT and otherwise guided bombs or AA rockets.
I don’t see the obstacle. You have the data that reveals the problematic weapons.
1 Like
This is why reading my entire post matters. What was the context of that statement? If you can’t answer that question, then it’s pointless to argue in circles.
Speed and maneuverability do matter however the importance of them decreases significantly when you have good positioning. That was the context of that statement. So when you say that you knew this for “years”, all you’re doing is contradicting yourself.
Now you make a good point that all maps aren’t heli friendly. Preferably having mountains, small hills, buildings or any sort of good cover helps a lot but if you don’t, having a position where you can break LOS quickly is much better than being high up in the air.
Repeating yourself multiple times without reason doesn’t make your statement right.If I said “no they’re not thus I’m right”, do you know how ridiculous that sounds. For someone that brings up majority opinion as an argument, I have yet to see anyone agree with you.
We’ve had this discussion multiple times and it usually ends with you pulling out of the argument. I’ve made my case on why Apaches along with all other SALH (with only one exception) suck. You have not.
Because you are…
Majority of your games come from PVE and that lack of experience in GRB shows. All it takes is me looking at our prior conversations. Again these aren’t private, it’s open for everyone to see.
I don’t even think you played any of these systems once for the past 2ish months.
And from the looks of it, you’ve rarely played the KA52 and the longbow apache (from looking at the RP gained). So unless you GE’d rushed it (and if you have I’m surprised you haven’t played it), why are you speaking as if you do have experience?
At least with Scorpion, he has the experience with the Ka52 and Mi-28NM and I can understand where’s he’s coming from. I disagree with some of his opinions because that to his inexperience.
1 Like
SPAA with radar can still find you with radar from what I can remember, so that doesn’t really help all that much, especially if you are planning to launch PARS right behind an obstacle.
I’d still take the Mistrals and gun to protect me against aircraft, though.
Hence why they are fine at where they are.
How did you let that happen 💀💀💀
Not as good as the Mi-24D’s 4x 23mm gun pods, though.
I’ve already noted that:
I guess, although I don’t think arcade counts lol.
Sim, not really:
Finding a hard time believing that when you say that the Ka-52 is just as good as the AH-1Z.
I agree.
I have two friends in my squadron who play quite competitively and use XBOX controllers.
They find some wacky ways of assigning keybinds that still somehow work for them, just saying.
And which exception is that?
They are indeed not fine. The m247, and similar vehicles are only .3 br higher, and spaa at 8.3 can easily snipe low tier helicopters.
There are really 3 problems to heli game play. Biggest being planes, followed by full uptier (stronger spaa), followed by dominant low tier spaa.
I tried like 5 matches with my hind. Keybinds kept screwing me up. I need to really test it out some day soon. There should be roughly 3-5 in my KA-50 on there too.
I didn’t let it happen, me and my buddy were screaming as his commander died and I was trying to get an angle to fire my 85mm, then he somehow penned me and I died. I was quite upset to say the least.
I have never seen a Mi-24D carry 23mm gun pods into battle. And with how bad the damage is on it, I’ve hit an AH-1G of doom with around 150 rounds, and he hit me with a rocket. He won, I died. Also, why is the AH-1G the sky Leo2a7v? I’ve hit those with R-60ms, and tons of cannon fire to get just a “critical hit”
The KA-52 is a 12.0 that is larger, I believe slower if I recall, and locked 30mm and semi useless radar, but yes the 30mm can do more damage if your not already shot down by the time your in range to use it.
The AH-1Z is a fraction of the size, with 16x ATGMs vs the KA-52’s 12. It boasts higher penetration by 400mm which is a lot. It does lack a radar, but has a better turret. It can take Aim-9Ms without sacrificing ATGMs.
The range loss in the hellfire is made up for by damage and penetration.
They have their trade offs for sure. But largely in part, they are equal.
So what would you suggest?
Moving all low tier helicopters down by 0.3?
💀
I’ve seen experienced players use it, and I have personal experience with the 23s. They’re not bad but they definitely aren’t too great either.
¯_(ツ)_/¯
The KA-52 is generally not larger.
I’d say they’re about the same size.
The KA-52 is faster than the AH-1Z.
The 30mm is not locked. It can move freely around the right side of the Kamov.
Semi useless radar - but at least you have one, unlike with the AH-1Z.
The 30mm has much better range than the 20mm on the AH-1Z.
Does far more damage since it’s a 30mm and shoots APDS, which is great for dealing with tanks if you’d like too.
16x midi ahh ATGMs VS 12x giga chad ATGMs.
I’d take the latter, and so would many profs.
Sure, it can 1-shot and penetrate way more easily than Vikhirs… but the problem is actually hitting the target at a reasonable time, if at all.
The only thing better than it is the angle it can move around and the firerate.
Other than that, it’s worse in every other way.
So can the Ka-52 take 8x Iglas without sacrificing any ATGMs… your point?
Not at all.
I’d rather be able to hit something than not hit anything - and the usefullness of Vikhirs largely depends on how good you are at using them.
The AH-1Z is just inferior to the Ka-52, what else can I say?
Not even by just a 0.3 BR difference, it’s more like a 0.7 BR difference (With the AH-1Z at 11.7 and the Ka-52 at 12.3).
- The 30mm is limited to I believe -3 / 6 degrees horizontal on the KA-52 and on the KA-50 -6 / 8 degrees.
- Neither typically gets into gun range. Typically that is used for anti aircraft, in which the AHZ is better.
- You’d rather consistently spend 2 ATGMs per target vs 1? Typically Leo’s and abrams don’t die in one hit. Sometimes you get lucky.
- I could see the AH-1Z being an 11.7, but the KA-52 is not 12.3 material.
The fact you have to babysit it for that long means you might not spot the enemy in time to stop his attack. Gun kills can and will happen on every plane, let alone on something that big and slow.
And this dealing with tanks part takes 15s at a time.
You will get ambushed easily and Su-39 definitely can’t hold it’s own against a fighter that has a single braincell.
Sorry, but you can’t really convince me otherwise.
That’s not really scientific if you ask me.
Some players can lose a fight against 11.0 boat in their 13.0 jets, but that means nothing.
I can barely make my pilot pass out in the test drive while fully pulling with combat flaps at ~0.8M, so I don’t think it turns very well.
I’ve seen it eating darts well below 1000m.
Bringing BN to knife fights is actually more niche than APS itself, anyone doing that is actually misplaying pretty hard.
Somewhat close to that, sure.
As long as you’re aware of your surroundings, both can be used against aircraft well - just that the Kamov’s gun has longer range and is way more potent (30mm APDS / 75.5g worth of TNT HEF-I compared to low-velocity AP and 16g worth of TNT HE rounds.)
Again, it’s not the damage that’s the problem.
It’s the lack of speed and range that the hellfires have.
I’d take Vikhirs anyday, unless the enemy team so happens to let me fly within 2/3km with little to no retaliation.
It’s one of, if not, the best helicopter.
I’d understand not thinking it’s a good idea at the moment, but if they decompress aircraft to 13.3, for example, then why the hell not?
And HondaCivici claiming he himself lacks experience; I say this cause he can’t even match my performance despite claiming to have played helicopters longer.
If it takes you longer to learn is that a good thing?
This is reminder that for every 1 battle I do in realistic mode, HondaCivici has to do 2.5 to match my time in matches.
My average lifespan is 5 minutes, their lifespan is 2 minutes.
You have to divide HondaCivici’s helicopter battles by 2.5 to compare their battles to mine.
I’ve used helicopters as scouts and in the same exact way HondaCivici uses their helicopters in matches, and far longer than them.
They don’t even have a single battle in AH-64DJ, they don’t even surpass my KDR in matches despite having more in some helicopters.
In-fact, they have never surpassed my HKP3C KDR, a 2km range missile helicopter that is far within SPAA range.
73 frags, 55 deaths.
If anything is worse at its BR than the Ka-52 and Apache are at their BRs it’s the HKP3C.
I choose not to play helicopters cause I’ve learned everything. If I had the time to play them to posture and brag like some needy child I would, but I don’t.
You can see from G-Lynx what would happen if I touched Apache and Ka-52 again in ground realistic:
The only reason I don’t is boredom.
I’ve played Apache and Kamov for over 100 hours in both WT and DCS.
I’ve fragged countless tanks.
I am not home so I couldn’t tell exact values, I went based of what seemed correct. For the flexible turret.
Secondly, the difference is 130m/s right? It’s due to the pattern in which hellfires fly. There’s no fixing that.
Yes it should be the best by its specs alone. Russia spends a lot on their helicopters. But in terms of how WT plays, FnF and reload in 15 secs is the more strategic plan. Dump endless FNF ATGMs score 6-8 kills etc etc.
I remember when the Tiger UHT was spammed in ground, like the Leo2a7, people were getting an easy 12-14 kills.
As they would just get in a light tank, scout a couple tanks, get a kill, J out, fly a UHT and get free kills until and spaa appeared. But even then just FnF the spaa. And dip away.
Again, you do not have to keep moving your laser designator based on where the target is moving.
The auto tracker does that for you, so you just have to wait and make sure nobody interupts you.
Maybe, from time to time, go back into your integrated targeting camera to see if it’s still tracking the target.
Nobody should be creeping up on you and getting a gun kill within 1km from you if you do this correctly.
Pure dedicated fighter? Of course not.
Multi roles / pure CAS aircraft at this BR, definitely can stand a chance.
Sure it’s not scientific, but it can give you an idea of how it performs.
Right now you’re just seeing it in theory.
I think otherwise (and this is with full ordnance and expert + max crew:
I say you should spade it out and see it for yourself.
I don’t believe you will regret it.
From what I checked, most top tier darts have a velocity of ~1600m/s
So instead of a 420m min distance, it’s more like a 480m min distance.
So it eating darts well below 1000m is… reasonable?
Unless you’re talking about its ability to completely stop high pen rounds, to which I’d say that’s kinda cool. Kind of a shame that it only gets 4 charges.
I didn’t know staying alive doing nothing means that you know how to play helicopters.
I wonder why most top players have around a 2-4 min lifespan:
I guess you’re just better than them.
Wow… 12 matches?
Now that’s an insane sample size.
12 matches, which is over 1 hour of gameplay.
And I have 10 tech trees being played compared to HondaCivici’s 2.
Even IF I was conservative and only divided by 2.5 and 10, that 750ish battles I saw drops to 30 battles really quickly.
Prioritizing survivability gives more data for the team.