It would be more of a safe zone for helis, but making planes fearful would also be nice.
Considering many planes run for the AF already, it wouldn’t change much
Grinded three helicopter tree’s thus far (ISR, UK & USSR), and my overall thoughts are :
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The grind is awful. Far worse than any other vehicle category in WT. PVE is the only meaningful way to make progress and it’s a boring, bug ridden mess in which you compete with far too many ‘teammates’ for not nearly enough targets. All whilst being time gated in your earnings thanks to the awful useful actions system.
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Gameplay in ground battles is either high highs or low lows. No SAM’s up? You pretty much have free reign to wipe half the enemy team. But you’re only ever one competent AA player away from being played out the match (which honestly, I’m fine with, SAM’s should be an ultimate deterrence). The experience is either tankers not having fun or Heli’s having fun. Only one extreme or the other. Which isn’t a healthy gameplay loop for anyone.
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Would love to see some sort of implementation of Heli’s into Sim EC. There are huge hurdles to overcome with this, not least how balance things like TY-90 (and if they should even be allowed in the mode at all). But it would actually permit a place to have fun in helicopters - something no game mode currently offers.
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Heli’s who don’t have their damage modules updated should be reverted back the old system of damage. It is ridiculous having your weapons system knocked out by a singular MG hit to an irrelevant part of the airframe
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Low tier Heli’s with ATGM’s are a huge balance problem, in that they exist at BR’s where no SAM’s exist to counter them. A well played Alouette / Scout etc is nigh untouchable. Idk what the solution here is. Maybe add lower BR manpads like just some dude stood on the back of a Toyotas flatbed with a Stinger / Igla etc lol.
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Heli IR signature is far too low. Something like a Stinger not being able to lock them beyond 2km sometimes feels wrong.
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I do not think Helipads should have AA / SAM’s covering them. Some countries still have no ground based means of countering Heli’s, and adding an AI AA deterrence would be unfair to them given CAP is their only means of counterplay. Heli’s IR signature is so low that you’re often forced to gun them, and potent AA makes that unviable. It’d also make Chinese Heli’s a near untouchable flying AA platform.
3 Likes
I agree with 90% of this except:
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IR sig are super high for the Hind and others. I’ve been able to be locked at far as 6km out with the LAV-AD, while having irccm jammers on, Hirss, and launching flares after the stinger is fired.
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the early helis ATGMs aren’t that good. Any Gepard, ItPsV, PGZ, chieftain marksman’s or m247 can decimate helis. (Italy and Russia suffer the most in anti helicopter aa).
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the Chinese helis would have to leave spawn to kill anything, which they often spawn in, fly to the enemy spawn, and wait, and get 4-5 free kills. This would severly reduce the risk of spawning and dying to a camping heli as well as a plane.
What I do agree with:
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The sim PVE and rb be rewards should be increased. Being top in my team earlier in a premium heli, with premium time, I only got 37k research. Which may seem like a lot, but I had a 20% booster on as well. For a 1.5 hours long match, it’s really not worth it. If it was maybe 45k I wouldn’t have minded.
Ground RB rewards should be nearly doubled for helis, in GRB I feel like I earn literally nothing. -
Yes helicopters are OP until any CAS / spaa are up, then, unless your in an F&F helicopter, your toast, especially if a plane is up.
CAS players in planes are by far the most dominant and “turn the tide” weapon on the battlefield. -
The heli damage models should be reverted for the larger helicopters. Things like the Alouette and Ah-1G live far too much damage as is, literally eating 150 12.7 rounds, and R-60s or Aim-9Ls is a bit odd.
Playing the MI-24D as a good example, it is equipped with Falangas which are okay for 8.0, but 8.7 is too much, as a Gepard will erase you before you have a chance. Or something carrying an .50 cal hits your chassis’s and it’s back to the helipad if you can make it. Especially since a poor hit from it hitting the top rear of the fuselage behind the engine knocks every system on the helicopter instantly.
Something nicknamed the “flying tank” should have some utility and armor to it, I feel like I’m flying an M22 shooting at Somuas or something instead.
Appreciate the thought out reply. Just on where we disagree :
It’s definitely an issue of consistency, and one I am pained by often mainly playing Israel who only has IR SAM’s. Sometimes It will let me lock an Alouette 4km away, sometimes I cannot lock a Eurotiger 1.5km away. Varies game to game based on Heli, map temperature and the… idk how to articulate this… ‘opacity’(?) of the atmosphere. Like fog density so to speak. Makes it very frustrating for IR AA player to often feel helpless.
I’m really not sure I agree. The guys new to Heli’s who just hover in place or fly in straight lines, aye, absolutely, but the guys who actually know what they’re doing and fly erratically / evasively are extremely difficult to do anything against. The few HEVT SPAA’s can still delete them, but it’s far harder for anything else to hit the Heli, than it is for the Heli to hit them back. Big issue on open maps that lack vertical cover.
The issue / specific case I’m referring to is one we have actually seen before when the near Heli pad did have AA. On some maps, that near helipad is close enough to the battlefield that actually would shoot down CAS/CAP not even threatening the Helipad.
Something like a Z10 can just position itself so it has good coverage of the battle area whilst remaining in its own helipads AA bubble. Makes it extremely difficult to counter him when he has TY90’s / Cannon / AA firing at the CAP, whilst the CAP can’t really do anything other than run the gauntlet to get in gun range.
Only way I see getting around this is moving helipads further away (or just removing the close one) so Heli’s still have to leave that protective bubble to do anything.
Sounds like an Israel problem, just like Italy has the same problem.
And I have plenty of clips, I took earlier to back up exactly what I said. Kept dying to the first 3 AAs I mentioned.
Although I never saw this, I’d believe it. But for all the other helis who can hardly defend themselves. It’s not really fair. Yes, I do agree it’s not the best if the spaa covers the battlefield, but I say it’s somewhat okay due to cas dominance, and many people don’t have top tier spaa.
But if it covered up to 2km away from the battlefield, or even 3 it would be nice.
The nearest airfield is still a long flight for low tier helis.
And I try to be as reasonable as possible.
I’ve come to the conclusion, that it is pure self harm to play low tier helicopters… it’s just super annoying. I’ll fire any atgm, and the target always dies beforehand atgm lands. Not to mention, all the 8.7 / 8.3 AAs can clobber the helicopters with ease.
100000% NO
skill issue
1 Like
You don’t like Ai spaa because you probably spawn camp helis in planes, or you spam cas. Which… is unsurprising, as that’s the typical notion.
It’s a skill issue, that a Mi-24D, V, or P can hardly turn to effectively engage a jet coming to kill it? Or spaa out ranging those low br helicopters?
You are in full form, biased there friend.
its better than helicopters also being untamed.
actually most people arent okay with it anyway but to remove everything at this point is not reasonable while not making helis op is still reasonable. thats how the community opinion is shaped.
1 Like
I didn’t even get to read it lol.
But as I was saying, it’s a bit odd planes get to be so dominant. But screw helicopters I guess
frankly , i didn’t think i’d see this kind of topic here but here’s my 2 cents, playing low tier helis has been very painfull, it’s already bad enough with the russian 4km atgm, but what about the swedish one with the 2km potshot. I can barely farm to get next tier .
It’s either getting jetrushed or getting AA killed,atleast with the AA i can sometimes evade it, not a spawncamping jet.
I do not understand why this is even a discussion. If you disagree that helis do need some kind of deterrence protection from at the very minimum enemy jets, you are just trying to get easy heli kills as a plane. Shame on you.
1 Like
I agree. I played a bunch of matches trying to get into helicopters yesterday. I think my longest life was 3 mins, shortest was 14 seconds. All died to planes, except 1 time. So roughly probably 14 deaths to planes, 1 death to spaa.
Out of the 15 deaths I think I scored roughly 8-9 kills.
150k RP for the second helicopter which sucks for its BR for the most part, unless it’s a Huey. The RP% for kills is insanely low.
Helicopters generally just suck because of the grind, and the stupid ‘module addition’ for vehicle that have no modules a single hit from a .50 cal and there goes your ability to fire anything. No gun, no unguided rockets, it’s bullshit.
1 Like
I get why they did it for the highest tier helicopters.
But Mi-24s, and other big helicopters which are mostly cargo get hit by pebble and suddenly your a big hunk of junk about to die.
2 Likes
May I ask why the Dev team made helicopter gameplay so God D**n bad?
7.7 helicopters are impossible to grind.
8.0-8.3 are somewhat okay but usually planes / spaa get them.
8.7-9.7 it’s hit or miss, either they are awful or they’re decent.
10.0+ is just a mess.
Also, why do Fim-92E/Ks always nail flaring and moving helis???
My buddy and I tested this, as the Sweden mi-28a was able to dodge 4 fims.
Meanwhile in our own testing, no other helicopter could evade a stinger… like how is this fun?
All the things I find fun are being ruined, and honestly I want my money back at this point. If I knew where this game was headed 7 years ago I wouldn’t have played.
I adore helicopters but can’t play them, because to planes im a free kill, to spaa I’m an easy kill… they’re the main reason I continue to play
Like what is going on at Gaijin HQ???
That’s how tank players feel when playing ground battles lol screw planes and helicopters.
Speaking of grinding, can play ground assault mode to grind for parts or the research for the next one, a little boring but you will make consistent progress every game unlike PvP sometimes you die with no kill which is waste of time with no progress.
I’d rather just do the heli game mode at that point.
Also helicopters are not nearly as op as planes
All this time later, helicopter gameplay is for masochists. Thanks gaijin, planes are allowed to roam free, but a usable heli is not allowed.