Yeah, maybe the game should have 2 top tiers and 2 starts. One for modern era and another one for WW2. I personally don’t enjoy the modern era so I use to play below 7.0.
These days I’m playing T95, which is the purpose of a super armored vehicle that goes 13 Km/h if most of the times the first enemy you find pens you from the front as you were a light tank? If T95 can’t rely on armor what he can do? And you have to use It at the first of the battle, because you need the first half of the battle to reach the battle.
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To make heavy tanks competitive and fun to play, it is true, I think there should be a barrier separating heavy tanks from “modern” ground vehicles with composite armor, APFSDS, HEAT-FS and/or ATGMs. To make it simple, with a historical point of reference to help visualize this barrier, pre and post Korean war should make a pretty decent barrier that I think the games needs.
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Same goes with the Maus and other heavily armoured vehicles.
At the moment they lose their only advantage, they become useless
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When Gaijin released their roadmap of game changes, one was “balancing” Cold War vs earlier tanks.
- Improving the balance of late Cold War era vehicles, when the homogeneous steel and full-caliber shells to APDS, ATGM, gun stabilizers, etc., by changing the BR of certain vehicles. Summer updates 2023.
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yeah i did read that, i really hope they go through with that! :)
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That will be fantastic if they do It in a good way.
Yeah, a barrier using real life history will be a good idea. That’s what I’m thinking about. Making a barrier in the 46 or close to that year, so things that fight in Corea can’t see WW2 ones.
Panther II, Flakpanzer 341 and Tiger II 10.5cm Approve. +69 social credits.
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I would just place the barrier at around 1950 or 1953. I think we have to consider a lot of post ww2 vehicles that were designs right after the war (pre Korean war) with the experience that ww2 had taught combat vehicle designers. Some of these vehicles fit better in a ww2 environment than a early cold war one.: tanks like centurions, the Conqueror, FV4005, The late IS-tank line, or early designs of the t-54(firing exclusively conventional ammo) American M46, T32 models so on and so forth. Gaijin would really have to make a decision on every single vehicle around this era of tank development to place them on either side of this proposed barrier. Intriguing indeed
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I am properly off with 1950 to 1953, its just to give a broader scope and space for the barrier to be placed and balanced 😊 it should be closer to 1946 than 1953 obviously lol
Which is why it will probably never happen as they have discussed this as an almost unsolvable barrier. Whatever they chose would not please all the players at once. Each nation will want THEIR vehicles to be the top dog of the new “top tier”.
But in hindsight the modern WT now tacked onto the original game makes for a messy experience. If you like the sub-7.0ish BR vehicles you are lumbered with thousands of players making their way to the top ASAP with no regard for the actual battles played. I feel the damage is done!
I think the first BR of post world war 2 won’t be so advanced, in my idea It would have vehicles as T92, Bulldog, T-54, M46, PT-76… they have modern shells but they are not so powerful so they can fight each other without so many problems. In this first cold war BR maybe we can have heavys as the M103, Conqueror, IS-8, IS-7 or Obj 279. If some of this vehicles (mainly heavys or tank destroyers) underperform we can move them to WW2.
Mobility is always an advantage.
This is especially true in a game where the primary winning objective is to cap points. There is nothing you can really do, to compensate for a vehicle’s lack of mobility.
Armour is always dead weight, up until the point it actually stops a round from penetrating. And this is why, in real world history, heavy tanks went away… but this is a game. And there is no point having multiple vehicle classes, if they all play the same.
Please understand: many people frame this argument as “historical matchmaking” (WW2 vehicles should never face postwar vehicles). That’s not what I’m saying at all, I’m fine with performance-based matchmaking, for instance the PT-76 is fine where it is, since its round is terrible, and nobody would play it if it was up against its contemporaries.
However, think about what I’ve just implied. The only purpose for a vehicle to be in the game, is so that players will use it; otherwise it’s a waste of graphical assets etc. For players to use it, it should be competitive.
Which is why every time you see people in the forums type stuff like “heavy vehicles are just not in meta right now” or “just don’t spawn in them, use lights” that should be a massive red flag. You’re implicitly admitting that there is a balance problem, even if you may not realise it.
Heavy vehicles sacrifice everything for the sake of protection, and should get the benefit from said protection. Please understand I’m not necessarily talking about all heavies no matter what, Tiger II Sla for example has great mobility and excellent gun handling, I’m talking about the real bricks here. T95, T28, Jagdtiger, Tortoise, Maus, Black Prince…
All of these vehicles are slow and vulnerable to flanking, and they have guns that are either mediocre, or amazing in stopping power, but with horrendous reload times.
You’re often advised to “play them like a medium” because armour has been rendered meaningless by Gaijin’s idea of balance, but that’s just dumb. At that point you might as well be playing a medium instead, at least you have actual usable reload speed (or whatever other weakness ameliorated).
Light vehicles have no business cheesing their way through the frontal armour of vehicles like Tutel or Jagdtiger, that sacrifice so much of their mobility and flexibility to act as battering rams or defensive vehicles at chokepoints. If heavies sacrifice mobility for protection, light vehicles should use their mobility to compensate for their lower firepower (and survivability, although the reality is that right now no armour is best armour, meaning they’re also tankier than heavies in many occasions).
What truly baffles me, is that this happens at lower BRs already. We readily accept that lights and mediums shouldn’t be able to universally lolpen a Churchill, you have to try and flank it, or rely on the support of someone with an adequate derp gun (like Dicker Max, say), which again is only so derp because it comes at the expense of everything else (to carry on with the example, Dicker Max is slow and unarmoured).
EBRs, IKV91s, Fiat 6614, all these vehicles are grossly undertiered, and their uniform presence on the battlefield makes it so that heavies don’t play as heavies.
To be clear, not all light go karts are the same either. Like already said I’d leave the PT-76 where it is. Also, there are a few heat-fs dispensers that could be left in the “late WW2” BR cluster because they’re not exactly game-breaking, die rather easily, and have horrendous gun handling even by SPG standards: ASU 85, M56 Scorpion, Jagdpanzerkanone 4-5. Leaving enough of these at said BRs would also prevent heavies from becoming frontally immortal to absolutely everything, so we keep a degree of balance.
But this “everything should be able to lolpen everything else frontally” is a poor man’s idea of balance, and makes the game much less tactical.
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Yeah, that’s just the point. Lots of heavys only have armor, no more advantages, and because of modern rounds that armor means nothing, so the tank loose its whole point.
Of course some tank destroyers could be with modern rounds in WW2, because they are supposed to be the powerful gun. It is its role in the game mechanics.
Without heavys we loose the only enemy that make people think what to do instead of just shooting trought the front.
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Gaijin is going to rework small caliber HEATFS, so the PT-76 could be quite a bit stronger in the future.
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I wish with a better Heat comes a higher BR.
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7.3 should not exist. Game needs a gap there. II WW era (and some cold war POS tanks) should end at 7.0, than the next BR should be 7.7
It would give some sens of accomplishment for II WW history freaks and releave some of the pressure from old tanks. There is no sport in killing lumbering beasts with HEATFS.
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Let’s not forget all the no-skill tanks Gaijin added, all those heat spamming rats such as the USH or the new german equivalent
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It would be better to change the matching range to ±0.7 rather than “hard cap” in my opinion. Everyone hates up-tier matching, but heavy tanks are even more annoying. Because heavy has very little to do in the uptier match.
Gaijin makes an excuse that the waiting time for matching will be long, but this can be overcome by mixed-matching like arcade battles or naval battles.