HEAT roof attack

Another idea that stems from fundamental misunderstanding of how things work comes in form of a top attack with HEAT ammunition.
For some reason the GJ thinks, for a while now since this is a few years old issue, that a horizontal hit in the tanks observation mast, somehow produces an explosion that has the effects of a top attack of a specialized missile that detonates above the tanks roof.
The point of the shaped charge is a penetration, which is in the direction of trajectory, not perpendicular to it, as the GJ seem to think.

So much about “Simulation”…

What weapon are you talking about?

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I am assuming that he is talking about a HEAT or HEATFS shell hitting an optic or copula.

I think he got hit by HEAT-FS on the MG/Commanders Sight/Some Mast, it exploded and some fragments killed him by penetrating the turret roof.

Which I think is really a bit weird sometimes, because Shaped Charges should have a direction, right?

Since most grenades with filler still explode spherical inside the tank (magically loosing all momentum they had before detonation), i am not even suprised about this one.

Well tanks were never a sim. It’s a shooter.
But the mechanics of weapons aren’t realy a strong point.

Interestingly enough, Soviet T-line doesn’t have MG on top of tank modelled at all, so your HEAT is gonna fly right through it and even if you manage to land the round on roofs periscope or something protruding that’s actually modelled, the round will detonate, but with negligible effects on the inside of the tank, just like it should. Killed gunner on one in ten, or more, shots, eg.
Leopard2s (and possibly others) don’t get the courtesy of such, accurate, modelling, though.

I mean they do. Ive destroyed and overpressured vehicles frequently by taking advantage of it it.

Are you reffering to the fact HEAT has overpressure modeled? (Tho HEAT has a broken and limited overressure effect when it comes to large warheads)

Yes there is a jet which is formed by the explosion, but there is still the mostly circular explosion to content with.


This one, in test, doesn’t, so others don’t have it either, or you’re suggesting that GJ is using different models for test and game?

For both test and game the roof mounted machine guns are hittable

In these screenshots you see the gun modeled and it even gets hit markers by fragments of the explosion

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No, they’re not. Load test and try before typing, again.
MG doesn’t trigger the HEAT round. Only viewport underneath it, does.

Gun is modelled, but MG isn’t.
But, even if it was, Soviet tanks have properly modelled armor on top, unlike Leopard2 where a single shot in the commander’s mast kills the entire turret crew.

And by gun i mean MG.

The mg is modeled you can see it modeled in the screenshots you provided. It even took shrapnel from the explosion.

I recommend using a machinegun at close to range to locate the machine gun.

Note you need to hit the gun steel. The mounting, magazine and other accessories arent modeled. You can see in the screenshots you provided what part of the machine gun is hitable by the grey damage model it shows

Its even red from damage


It is never circular. The detonation of an object that moves relative to you i not circular relative to you. It should be distorted, because even the expansion of the explosion carries the momentum it had when it was part of the shell.

Depending ln the explosive mass and velocity of the detonating shell this could even be a cone.

And yeah thats overpressure. If you have sufficient explosive mass, it will do that.

Well, obviously, I’m not saying the MG isn’t modelled per se, since you can see it, but it doesn’t have a hitbox that triggers a HEAT round.

So? Soviet HEAT has 2.8kg and German has 2.5kg of TNT equivalent.
Plus, to the point of the thread, HEAT produces shaped overpressure and that one isn’t perpendicular to the trajectory of the round.

From the reference frame of the shell the explosion forms a oblate spheroid.

For shrapneling the relative velocity matters, but the overpressure effect will mostly still happen in a sphere around it.

It does. Ive killed my fair share of MGs when rolling around in a lightweight heatslinger to not die after dissabling their main armament.

Its annoying to hit, sure. but its there

What are you talking about??
I’ve just provided you a screenshot where HEAT just flew through the top mounted PKT and hit the hill behind on a T90A. How did you kill Soviet tanks via PKT installation when it doesn’t even have a hitbox??

You provided a screenshot where you shoot below the gun metal into the mounting area which as mentioned not a hitbox.

Good God man!

Hit box must follow visual object.
You can’t have ammo boxes modelled and no hit box for them.
You can’t have a 3D model of a PKT and have the sole hitbox in its barrel.
Why are we even talking about this?

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Yes its not secret that the damage model for machine guns is inconsistent and difficult to hit.

But it is there.

As for OP, it just seems like you are describing overpressure or a Warthunder moment, both you should be familiar with allready