You want to mow my lawn? Thanks!
While they were not meant to, unfortunately, they were forced into conflict. Besides that Gramps seems to “Expect” a system that does more harm than good to this game.
This is a post of “Wouldn’t it be nice if War Thunder did WW2 with no post war vehicles”
Yes it certainly would be,very nice and even better on WW2 related maps and better still with just two opposing sides of Axis and Allied.
War Thunder heaven but like heaven itself , nothing but a dream.
You can only hope a better game comes out that allows for what you want but that does not seem to be happening anytime soon.
Maybe join a squad and find somewhere that focuses on WW2 only games on WW2 era maps if such a thing exists.
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I’ve got a topic I’m drafting in a separate document but one thing I will concede for many players is that the game is definitely unfair.
However, the unfairness isn’t the vehicles, their ammo or the matchmaker. I honestly think people can’t understand or percieve skill differences and how a small difference can have a major impact.
If a player encounters one or several skilled players, the situation can very genuinely be described as helpless. It is my opinion that people only blame the vehicles because that’s the part they understand, especially in ground vehicles. (In air RB due to the nature of dogfights it seems to me at least that it’s a lot easier to tell when you’ve been outplayed as a opposed to being let down by your plane)
Defyn reminded me recently when talking about guide videos, that ‘your death is generally a result of a mistake you made 5 minutes ago’. I don’t think many GF players factor their location as being a factor in their demise, relative position of team mates and understanding of information in the mini map.
(A random aside, It was recently that I noticed that I spend most of my time watching the mini map these days when playing war thunder, I can’t say I’ve mastered it to the degree that I can articulate what it is that I’m doing but I can definitely intuit a lot of information. It’s easy to tell players to watch the mini map, but I can only do it effectively because I’ve memorised safe routes on given maps and can get to where I’m going without barely looking. Generally speaking I know where the enemy is before I’ve visually confirmed. On maps that I’m less familiar with, I find that I’m scanning my screen far more often looking to spot enemies, and in these situations I notice that is me that is getting jumped by players that are expecting me. In these situations HEAT-FS, uptiers, downtiers, and CAS don’t really matter, generally speaking I’m mostly fighting players that are either unprepared to retaliate or completely ignorant of my presence, as such I can usually have enough time to place an effective shot with the gun I have. I honestly feel that If my gun is inneffective, it’s a result of me being in the wrong position, not that my weapon is not competitive
P.S. aside, in situations where I’m caught out of position; reflexes, crew skills, and knowledge of weakspot and internal modules come into play and will get you out of a pinch, but you still need to acknowledge that situation as a near miss if you survive, it’s still a mistake)
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Well you can get practically anything as a WT Live skin, and I don’t see the sense in a Mexican Air Force P-47 that has USAAF roundels on it…
War thunder won‘t have era separation in the near future.
So if you want to not face certain vehicles you have to prove that they are so good that they should move up and pen alone doesn’t really matter.
It was from the Mexican Expeditionary Force, their contribution to WWII and the US markings were kept for IFF recognition.
Right, its never the SOLE problem. But the ratel in specific, is just so amazingly bad, that being able to punch through anything just isnt really worth it.
I wonder if US and soviet tankers in WW2 complained about cheat-fs firing german panzerfausts …
Funny thought.
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It’s easier to kill any of those than it is for them to kill you.
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That’s why you got tanks with cages in this game 😉
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Well, consider me corrected. I didn’t know that. Thank you.
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This statement makes a lot of sense to be honest.It is grounded in reality or rather harsh truth. That is the somewhat sad reality of this game. Opportunity missed maybe.
It is also fair to say that a desire for era separation in many forms is both a strong and long lived desire for many players whether its WW2 or modern tanks on modern maps. So is a ground game with no aircraft.The subject wont die because the desire for it wont die.
So if player happiness is Gaijin’s main desire as it’s founder so often states then why not work on implementing these two things?
There are also so many clips of the CEO saying how proud he is of realism in the game so it’s not surprising that the game is full of tank enthusiasts wondering why we have the historical time scale so warped.
The frustration of selecting a WW2 heavy ,fully understanding its WW2 pros and cons only to see all that reasoning obliterated by 1960s technology.That is a big error in game making if you bother to stop and think about it.
Why spend so much time and money on making correct armour thicknesses only to put that same Armour against ammunition it would never have faced generally speaking?
You cant say it’s only a game then not give British or French tanks APHE or roof mounted MGs due to historical realism.
No wonder this debate rages eternal.
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Issue is, a 1942 armor can not protect you in the unfortunate situation when you get hit by a 1960s projectile…
Not when your 100-150mm thick plate, great for mid-WW2 standards, is forced to face the 400mm pen shells that literally made armor obsolete decades later until the design of composite armor.
And even less so when, many of the times, those vehicles will also have superior acceleration, top speed, agility, gun handling and profiles. Because apparently “balance” is everyone being able to frontally lolpen everyone regardless of any other parameter, capability or role of a vehicle. Light Tanks must be able to lolpen Heavy Tanks as easily as it happens the other way around because apparently that’s what “balance is”…?
I want you to know that I genuinely accept that you feel a certain way about this, and I appreciate that you feel like it’s an unfair matchup. With that in mind please consider the points I am making below.
Whether it’s intentional or not, trying to reduce tanks down to this very narrow dimension of ‘WW2 Frontal Armour vs Cold War Guns and Ammo’ is a very flawed perspective. We’re not playing a turn based board game here where statistics and probability are the only way to determine the outcome of engagement. These vehicles are all of their features not just a single statistic, and they’re all working together in a fluid game. In order for this argument to have any basis, you need to suspend all the other features in the game.
I would also like to know what your expectations are, what should these WW2 tanks be able to do that HEAT-FS is preventing them from doing?: (examples below)
- Is there a strategy you would like to use?
- Is there a part of the map you can’t reach?
- Do you think these tanks should be able to play more aggressively?
- Do you feel too vulnerable and as a result find yourself playing too passively?
I play the Tiger II, I play it a lot and I think it’s a great vehicle. I think it’s so good that It makes an average player good, and good player great. I think it has an excellent balance of mobility, gun handling and firepower. When you bring up the issue of Cold War Tanks, I don’t know what you mean, I don’t perceive the issue. If I’m in 7.7 uptier in my Tiger II; I just drive to the contested area of the map deal with the enemies there to the best of my abilities, if I get taken out, I get taken out and I try to do better next time. It simply never occurs to single out the tank or the shell that they fired as being the problem, I just jump in my Tiger IIP or my Sla16 (because I bought it) and try a different approach to see if I can get a get few kills and maybe even sneak up on the person that got me. If I get bombed, I just jump in my SPAA and wait for them to get sloppy and shoot them down when they make a mistake.
What is going wrong in your battles that makes you feel so strongly about it. I’m not here to ridicule, I have my own opinions on the matter and I think you have unrealistic expectations as to how some tanks should behave. BUT, I would like to talk to you about it so I can better understand how you feel, and I place emphasis on Feel, because the statistics and historical performance aren’t foundations to build on.
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So if player happiness is Gaijin’s main desire as it’s founder so often states then why not work on implementing these two things?
Since when has giving people what they want made them happy?
That said I think you’ve fairly pointed out double standards when it comes to realism vs “fun” gameplay but I liken the situation to the Anna Karenina Principle.
“happy families share a common set of attributes which lead to happiness, while any of a variety of attributes can cause an unhappy family.”
I argue the point that by simply having a successful game where these vehicles can fight each other at all, that the developers are successfuly balancing the game. I’m definitely not suggesting that the game can’t be improved. I also think that the HEAT-FS conversation is a problem of player expectations, not game design.
There was never “realism of WW2”, from the beginning of ground forces postwar Pattons were facing King Tigers.
A poor game ,song or movie can be successful
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I didn’t mean 100% reproduction but sticking to some framework. Adding a vehicle from the 70s (African) disrupts this framework. Different dynamics, different requirements and assumptions of the battlefield. Then we finish with AA which, due to BR, acts as TD. Or 400mm penetration at 4.0.
By mixing everything together, the developer makes every era the same barren mush. Let’s give each era some unique flavor. So that the game is enjoyable and changes depending on the BR.
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I dont think anybody has that much of a Problem with Pattons in a WW2 scenario .I think Artillery firing huge HE is more of a game killer.
I think he issue is that many people in Asia have little concept of tank warfare in WW2 as they didn’t really partake of it.Its not such a big historical issue.
Also Some cultures are just more prone to unrealistic wacky things and they don’t find the era mix offensive.
I think the WW2 era game is so overrun with post war ammo that its gone beyond taste and become a balance issue.Players in big numbers are questioning even bothering with a slow old tank that relies on armour that is of no use anymore.Why bother?
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Fun completely unrelated fact: the M107 HE round that most lower-tier “postwar” artillery use is also present on the T30, and that’s because it’s not a postwar round.
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