Harrier T.10 - Countermeasure balance issue

Dev Server "Hornet's Sting" General Discussion - Dev Server
1

Coming now with this major update, is the Harrier T10, a premium version of the Harrier Gr7, but with a two seater cockpit configuration. To enable a more reasonable BR, something many of us have wanted, it only has Aim-9Ls so it can be a direct equal to the AV-8B(NA). This so far is great and would be an immediate purchase, except for 1, glaring flaw.

It has no BOL.

This is not a historically accurate thing, the T10 100% had BOL and the devs have not disputed this fact, and its confirmed to be a balancing decision. It has also been confirmed that it will be getting a Phimat pod which helps, but overall I consider this inadequate given the primary threat at the BR is IR missiles and not SARH or ARH where the Phimat pod would prove most valuable. Additionally taking a Phimat pod would replace an Aim-9L, further reducing the T10s A2A performance.

The harrier also has notable issues with IR threats due to how the game models IR signatures and this is expected to get worse with the increase in thrust the Harriers are receieving in this major update, making it even harder to defend against IR threats than the Su-39 or A-10C.

Comparing the T10 to other aircraft at or around the BR , this “balancing decision” seems to make no sense to me as these examples will highlight:

Su-39
BR: 11.3
AAM: 2x R-73 + 2x R-60M
CM count: 192
Special feature: Rear-Aspect IRCM

AV-8B(NA)
BR: 11.3
AAM: 4x Aim-9L
CM Count: 180
(also a more powerful engine than the T10)

A-10C
BR: 11.7
AAM: 4x Aim-9M
CM Count: 480
Special feature: All-aspect MAWS

Sea Harrier FRS1
BR: 11.0
AAM: 4x Aim-9L
CM count: 60
Special feature: Radar + EEGS (currently missing)

Harrier T10
BR: 11.3
AAM: 3-4x Aim-9L
CM count: 60 (+216 large chaff by replacing an Aim-9L)
Special feature: Rear aspect PD MAWS

The balance they speak of doesnt exist. I have refrained from mention supersonic aircraft on principle, but 60 CMs is way below the average for most supersonic ground attack aircraft at this BR as well, let alone several supersonic fighters. I completely respect if the devs are concerned about adding 4x BOL to the airframe given the BR, but I do not think 2x BOL would be unreasonable

Proposed solutions, please vote:

  • Add 2x BOL and keep at 11.3
  • Add 2x BOL and move to 11.7
  • Add 4x BOL and keep at 11.3
  • Add 4x BOL and move to 11.7
  • Lower BR to 11.0
  • Leave as is at 11.3 with no BOL
0 voters
19 Likes
2

+1

even compared to the AV8B (NA) at its br, that has a better engine, less weight AND more countermeasures at the same BR. The engine and airframe cant be changed (and i dont want to) but the BOL on dedicated missile pylons would give it a slight edge in the defensive

phimat pod is not an acceptable solution as you loose an aim9L.

add 2 BOL to the inner dedicated missile pylons and leave at 11.3
or
move to 11.0 with no changes

7 Likes
3

Not to mention this shows even more so that this will be joining the GR7 in being unfairly placed. A10C and av8b NA have jdams, which is a massive capability difference, especially in sim, plus the 9ms of the a10c, there’s no reason the T10 should be implemented like this, and that the GR7 should be 12.3

1 Like
4

Both the Gr7 and T.10 should have 4x GPS Guided bombs, so that is missing. but yeah, in SB, it has a much weaker A2G payload than either

1 Like
5

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pack it up guys, no BOL for the harrier T.10

Guess Britian is SHAFTED AGAIN, WITHOUT FAIL, ANOTHER PREMIUM DOWN THE DRAIN

Can only hope they move it too 11.0, but by the sounds of it, enjoy playing the AV8B(NA) but its worse in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT

8 Likes
6

Useless addition as it stands now.

1 Like
7

Im starting to hate the development team more and more. there is 0 reason to NOT have its BOL pods. if its “overperforming” move it up in BR. limiting its DEFENCIVE SYSTEMS just because “balance” is insane. I can see limiting the Aim9M on it because its meant to be a lower battle ratting and thats perfectly acceptable and even expected. But to not give it BOL is pathetic really.

6 Likes
8

It is unless they do a full harrier overhaul and fix the heat sigs.

9

in which case, give me 12 countermesures because i will be 1 popping all day. but right now i feel like a (10.7 btw, super balanced) J7D will fire a PL5B at me rear aspect and its gonna take 20 countermesures to be sure its off my 6. imagine he does this 3 times. youre done.

i guess theyre worried the T.10 will be killing entire teams with the BOL, ive heard that the countermeasures can go rouge and instant kill the entire enemy team.

10

I will tell you now you will not be flaring much rear aspect due to the huge thrust buff.

I am unable to safely flare the Hunter F58 missile yet alone higher tier missiles like 9L

11

straight garbage.

i will be warning everyone on the T.10 devlog, im sure youll be doing the same

12

Well. They’ve lost a sale from me I think, Unless its BR drops. Without BOL, its DOA at 11.3

13

I have collected some video of it as well.

14

With more thrust and heat than ever before lol.

15

Yup.

16

It’s pushing out like 16,000 lbs plus at higher speeds

Compared to the 7-5k it was before

I still don’t understand how they where unable to get the Harrier 1s to perform to the E-M diagram provided

As well as fix the flaps

17

the 180 countermeasures is the main reason i use the AV8B over the SHAR. lack of a radar isnt an issue in airRB.

But gaijin expects us to SHILL money for a WORSE version of something most people already brought? The fact its worse in so many ways with no advantage is absurd. and the fact they say “no bol, balance” is genuinely making me question what is going on over there. and the answer to BOL is instead you can REPLACE an air to air missile for CHAFF?!?! OMG they cant be serious.

but ofc it would be, every trainer aircraft that is EVENTUALLY added is worse in many aspects but the same (or higher) BR
A7K - 11.3 for that awful experience, thats something the T.10 can do better then
F100F - 9.3 but its got less cannons and its heavier then the F100A… no upside its just worse
Jaguar E - 10.7, but, that can have 192 countermesures so problem… no balance issues here

18

That’s fair.

The EEGS and improved radar + all the fm buffs will make the shar fun.

It’s never been fun in war thunder in rb lol

19

Yeah, FRS1, especially if it gets EEGS, is just the better airframe in every respect. Same CM, same A2A fit, but with better kit and at a lower BR.

2 Likes
20

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all lower BR. so much balance!

2 Likes