Guy armoured car Mk IA

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                                   Guy armoured car Mk IA

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Vehicle Design and service history:

The Guy Armoured Car was one of many British armoured cars, that were produced in limited numbers during the course of the Second World War, and it saw limited action during the Battle of France. Unfortunately due to manufacturing constraints, Guy had insufficient capacity to produce this armoured car alongside their much-needed artillery tractors, resulting in the design and construction techniques being passed on to the Rootes group, which became the basis for the much more successful Humber Armoured car.

The history of the Guy Armoured Car began in 1938 when Guy Motors built five guy quad armoured car prototypes to a design from the Woolwich Arsenal based on the Quad Ant artillery tractor chassis. Using knowledge gained from these prototypes, in early 1938 a number of different 4x4 chassis from both British and foreign manufacturers were tested, in order to decern which would be best for the development of a new line of armoured cars to replace those outdated designs currently in service with the British army. By September three armoured cares had been built by Guy, which even if its chassis lacked some of the more advanced features of their competitors, was favoured, due to the ability to begin production immediately the Guy chassis was preferred.

With production in swing, the vehicle successfully completed troop trials, and between 1939 and 1940, a further 101 armoured cars were produced. The armoured car was initially designated the “Tank, Light, (Wheeled) Mark I”, though the vehicle would go by many names during service including the Guy armoured car, Guy Light Tank (Wheeled) and the Armoured Car, Guy. Initially, the contract specified that the armoured car must be of riveted construction, but following Guy’s suggestion this was changed to welded, as they deemed it more suitable and effective for rapid construction. This change necessitated the development of new techniques including rotating jigs, allowing the bodies and turrets to be produced quicker and cheaper, something the Royal Commission for Awards to Inventors recognised after the war.

Because of this welded hull, the Guy armoured car was the first British armoured car with an all-welded construction) along with a sloped glacis plate. A turret was mounted above the center of the hull, which in the early model was equipt with a Vickers .50 machine gun in the turret and a co-axial .303 caliber Vickers machine gun. This would be supplemented in the Mark IA model, which replaced the Vickers guns with a 15mm Besa machine gun and 7.92 Besa machine gun both of which were aircooled. The engine for the armoured car was located in the rear, and all vehicles carried a No. 19 radio set.

As previously mentioned the body of the Guy vehicle formed the basis of the later Humber Armoured Car, which employed a new chassis, providing a higher top speed and better characteristics overall. This improvement condemned the Guy armoured car to a limited production run, though this did not stop six MK 1 cars being sent to France with the British Expeditionary Force (BEF), though these were lost with the fall of France. This did not stop the cars serving further into the war though and four MK 1A cars, two each with the 12th Lancers and 2nd Northamptonshire Yeomanry, had their guns removed and additional seats fitted in 1940 for use in the Coats Mission to evacuate the royal family from London in the event of a german invasion. The rest of the production run served in various rolls within the British Army, Belgian Army, Danish and Dutch units stationed in Britain for home duties. By 1943 all Guy armoured cars had been replaced by more modern vehicles, of which was normally its much more successful successor the Humber armoured car.

Vehicle specification:

Mass 5.2 long tons (5.3 t)

Length 13 ft 6 in (4.11 m)

Width 6 ft 9 in (2.06 m)

Height 7 ft 6 in (2.29 m)

Crew 3

Armour up to 15 mm (0.59 in)

Main armament Besa 15 mm air-cooled machine gun

Secondary armament 7.92 mm Besa air-cooled machine gun

Engine Meadows 4ELA 4-cyl petrol engine 55 hp (41 kW)

Power/weight 10.6 hp/tonne

Transmission 4 forward, 1 reverse gear

Suspension 4 × 4 wheel

Operational range 210 mi (340 km)

Maximum speed 40 mph (64 km/h)

Historical photos:
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Sources:

6 Likes
2

Does gaijin use the standard pen formula for AP bullets or the APCR pen formula? If they use standard, the 15mm AP rounds would perform about the same as .50 cal ones. I hope the 15mm rounds will perform better though, because I would love to see this vehicle in the game. It has lots of potential for early flanking and being able to take on multiple targets in a surprise.

3

Penetration figures from Britain<br>BESA Machine Gun 15mm

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Apparently AP and AP-T were the most common rounds, with ball, tracer, drill and dummy also being made in smaller numbers.
See:

1 Like
4

+1 for anything with the 15mm BESA.

1 Like
5

+1

6

The steel penetrator rounds that were tested would give it more comparable penetration to the german 20mms found on things like the sdkfz 222.

7

The standard AP and AP-T was steel cored -

The poor performance of this round one of the reasons why the gun didn’t get made more.

8

Didnt get made more is not really an accurate statement when it was slapped on nearly over 3k armoured cars of various kinds, and was still being put on stuff into 1944. also poor performance irl is not how gaijin adds shells, looks at the maus apdshe and and afsds on that chinese type 63

9

It could have been made a lot more - it was considered for aircraft armament for example, and discounted. References for it’s problems or shortcomings are in the links I’ve provided but for all those it was still better than the 0.5" Vickers it replaced!

And as an existing manufacturing base there are always going to be “some” made for roles for which it is considered adequate.

there are many considerations that go into decisions as to what is being made - eg perhaps the small vehicles might not have been able to mount a larger weapon, or for which larger weapons were prioritized for other applications - eg 20mm considered more useful for ship AA and a/c and no manufacturing spared to ground vehicles.

10

I wouldent say 3000 being made is an example of “an existing manufacturing base there are always going to be “some” made for roles for which it is considered adequate.” For comparison the QF 95 mm howitzer only saw a run of 800 guns, and that was quite literally the definitive close support howitzer the british used in the second world war. The Q.F. 3.7-inch How Mk 3 in ww1 is a similar story with 820 were made. With british war production, if you got past 1000 being made you were a weapon deemed vital for some facet of the war, its why the odd ball tanks like the deacon or bishop capped out in the early 200’s which is what i would classify as existing manufacturing base being used for something.

The british have a habit of dabbling in a design, and then back tracking on it, the Chruchill 3 inch gun carrier is another good example. The BESA 15mm is something a bit different, as it was ideal for its role, which is why it was still in production post war, for spare parts and maintenance up until the start of the 50s. The reason for it required understanding british armoured recce units, and how they were composed, which is something i have been digging into whilst doing these armoured car posts, but its a similar mentality to the sherman firefly to normal shermans used in tank battalions.

11

Also using Gaijins formula for the anti tank shell you get the following

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that is a workable level of pen, its irl performance doesnt mean much if shell pen is done in game using this formula.

You can give it a go too if you like the formula can be found here

https://wiki.warthunder.ru/New_formuls_for_calculating_of_the_armour_piercing

12

The gun was considered adequate for use in small armoured vehicles but nowhere else.

There was nothing considered sufficiently better that could fit in those vehicles to replace it - so it remained in use in that role.

13

Yes - we are all familiar with the fantasy that is Gaijin’s penetration calculator.

14

Except they could slap 6 pounders and QF 75s in these armoured cars, the issue was never turret size for the guns, it was quite literally the fact the 15mm was used for a particular role, which every armoured car in armoured car unit would have. It’s why they are so varied in their armaments, and all have several marks.

Regarding Gaijins formula, that is all that matters, historically it might not have had that good penetration, but because they use that formula, its fully viable for the game.

15

Britain need more armored car.

Good job nathanclawfish

+1

16

I’m always in favour of Britain getting more of it’s long overdue light tanks. +1

17

It’s actually better than this.

18

That is a cool chart and all but it is showing that the limit where you are reliably penetrating corresponds to, like, 36mm of armor, which is worse than the calculator.

19

And teh calculator is all that really maters at this point, as its how they do shell pen.

20

It was only used in the Light tanks and Humber a/c Mk I - III, which never had any other armament fitted.

The Humber Mk IV was a development with a US 37mm - at the cost of 1 turret crew removed.

The armoured car with 6 pdr or 75mm were completely different machines - the AEC.

You should try arguing from facts some time.