How am I being disingenuous?
You understand the words meaning no?
Have you noticed he called me disingenious when they never actually responded to my last properly written response.
With the list of cons, he purposefully left out.
When I’ve not acted at all like I know less on the topic that I know more about.
Dude is parroting whatever folks say to try sound smart.
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T58 would be fine at 8.7, there are unstablised tanks which have cons and positives around that.
Amx30b2 for example…dart, lrf and thermals make up for the stab.
2.6 second reload and mediocre armour would bring the t58 in line.
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Oh how ironic
Thanks for calling me a Parrot, even though I am using the words you can’t ascertain the usage of, In which I have used in the correct context.
Tbf the Type 87 RCV is 9.0 with no stab, thermals/any night vision, no rangefinder, no LWS and only 92mm pen APFSDS from a 25mm. Just gotta play a specific way and any vehicle can do well at any BR. T58 wouldn’t change much if i had to guess.
It’s not being disingenuous at all, I’m not acting like I don’t know about the situation.
The fact is the reply you have linked from you to me.
I have in fact responded to and you again ignoring my multiple statements about composites.
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How ineffective heat is against ERA arrays and said composites.
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How it’s still an M103 hull and even with volumetric lacks sufficient protection against all darts found between 9.0 and 10.0
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You stated it doesn’t need a LRF as it has a range finder.
However this is still a negative aka a con, a LRF finds the range, sets the gun and allows firing all within a matter of a secone.
The rangefinder while faster than not having one is inherently still worse. An example of this would be chieftain mk5, if it gets a LRF it will move to 9.0 irregardless of its mobility, armour or ammunition.
- it doesn’t have good turret armour for 9.0 at all, the T62M1 does, the chieftain Mk10 does.
Both of which are more mobile.
Have a LRF and can fire a dart clean through a T58.
You again have not used it correctly. Being disingenuous : not candid or sincere, typically by pretending one knows less about something than one really does.
As per oxfords definitions.
You deliberately ignoring replies and specific chunks of information to make your point seem to hold more relevance or merit is disingenuous as you are downplaying massively the importance of the listed negatives the tank has in comparison with 9.0s.
You are purposefully acting as if you do not know how important those upgrades are to further your own point.
You also ignored my response further up.
Good catch on the ZA-35 I meant to make that 9.0 as well, I had forgotten. The belts they get, combined with mobility make them too good against the ground vehicles they face.
PBV501 is a very unbalanced tank, generally I never used the bmp-1’s ATGM, a whole 1.3 br difference makes little sense.
Veak 40 doesn’t need HEVT, many nations don’t get it, and will not get it, therefore it’s a bit unbalanced, unless you bump that in Br.
Conquerer is quite good tbh.
IS-6 you’ll kill it in numbers, skillful play, or reload.
6.3s would struggle as they should against a a heavy. It’s a full uptier for them.
RakJPz Hot may not be a 1:1 but is close enough.
IS-3 is a very poor tank, its true and only good element is its armor.
Things like the T29 currently exist at 7.0, which has less armor yes, but a more powerful cannon.
KV-1E is kinda bad at 4.3, it like the IS-3 relies too much on armor, many many 3.0s, 3.3s etc can frontally kill it with ease.
Its gun is also very lacking, often unable to kill 4.7, 5.0s. Its breech is very very easy to disable, and on penetrating hits you more often than not kill 60% of the crew or the whole tank.
Beglit I’m pretty sure doesn’t have APFSDS. If it did it would be equal to the 2s38 in br.
TL;DR
They won’t nerf the reload, therefore it will still be OP at 8.7
No one said it needed nerfed
The lack of stabilisation, LRF, thermals, effective armour being composites or era, and lack of mobility hold it back down at 8.7
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If it was at 8.7 then I would not pick it as there are much better vehicles to suit the role of it
The issue is that we don’t have enough B.R. range to properly balance vehicles.
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Eh I think it could do okay there.
Personally whenever I’ve came across it in my type 74 Cs or any 9.3s they die relatively easily.
Even to the chieftain it goes out.
Im saying right now if it were to move up 8.7 is as far as it could conceivably move.
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I agree, but in my experience reload beats all.
I was saying its reload is still too high for 7.7, 8.0, and so on vehicles to content against
I left out the horizontal aiming drive, because you’re correct, and it is faster on the T58, but you managed to list an incorrect value again (as usual), it’s 36º/s aced.
You can always rotate the hull and turret simultaneously to increase your vertical aiming speed.
Faster gun vertical guidance speed > turret horizontal guidance speed.
The Obj. 279 turret is so trolly, that the hull armor is mediocre compared to it’s turret.
- Hull armor
- Turret armor
Meanwhile:
Almost every area of the T58’s hull/turret is vulnerable to rounds as weak as the 84mm APDS or the 76mm HEAT, except the turret collar. Now… why should I target the turret collar when I can hit the upper area of the turret or the area around the gun, destroying the breach and killing the commander and gunner?
You keep mentioning the tank’s most heavily armored area in almost every reply lmao. The upper turret area or the area around the gun, which you need to expose to fire, is vulnerable to low power HEAT and APDS rounds. In fact, the entire tank is vulnerable to 76mm HEAT and 84mm APDS rounds, except for the turret collar.
T58/M103 hull armor is weaker than the early M60 model and is almost on par with the T-54’s hull armor, with ~200mm LOS armor on the upper glacis.
- T58
- T-54
No.
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Decompression
“Unless it was changed” which it was. Nice glance over that bit.
No change logs registered for T58 yet so i doubt it has been changed…
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Well said man
They changed the m/s for the HEAT round without a change log. It went from 900m/s to 826m/s
They did ? As far as I’ve checked was always the latter.
Unless you’re meaning from dev serv to live
1 Like