Ground SB has to be more immersive

Just imagine if tanks ran with a mouse and keyboard. Cause I know they’re gonna later on.

I don’t think they will. A mouse would just wobble around and be hard to use on rough terrain. A Touch Screen would be a preferable solution.

However this would still not be able to act like the WT mouse aim system. Since wt mouse aim also correct for every parallax on your screen. So a real tank would need perfect range information about all the surfaces of all objects around it to perform like the WT mouse aim system. That’s a lot of data to gather and you would need system that are capable of that that are updating in real time… That’s a bit much.

Mouse aim is capable of that since the game needs that information to render objects anyway, it also doesn’t need to gather the data since the game creates the data.

People thinking mouse aim is realistic or close to the real life systems are ignoring all the stuff mouse aim needs to do behind the scenes to be working as it is now.

But without parallax correction it might even be doable. The view would have to be different… Again Touchscreens would be more useful.


Fair, but this is also Military grade, so it’s gonna be very different. After all a lot of tankers nowadays use something very comparable to a controller.

You do realize that FCS locks onto tanks right? That is by definition more accurate than mouse.
It’s also why the primary reason tanks got to stick with control sticks instead of needing to develop a more accurate system.
Cause locking onto targets is more accurate than any control system.

Unmanned fighting vehicles maybe.

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Yeah i would liken it to a thumbstick, but it is operated more like a joystick.

This is why incannbe sure that the real system cannot compete with mouse aim in terms of speed and accuracy. Mouse aim is closer to the natural movement of our hands. If we stop moving our hand the mouse stopps as well, while stopping at a specific position on a stick does not stop the movement of the turret rotation (except the Position you stopped in was neutral). This adds a layer of “translation” your brain has to do. Which is the reason why a stick is slower, since that translation takes a bit of time.

The ability of a person to do this translation work are known as psychomotor functions and people have different psychomotor skills (with men being usually better at it). They even can be measured ( i got mine measured when i applied for my countries air force).

It’s your ability get a feel for a machine so to speak. It’s also the reason why the study pisted about the abilities to use a stick vs a mouse vs a keyboard was posted in a psychology journal.

This also why i said that you need a psychomotor equivalent for a simulation. Something that puts the same challenge on your brain as the real controls.

Which is also why “it’s as good just easier to use” should be a red flag why mouse aim shouldn’t be used in sim.

Psychomotor abilities are an interesting topic. And maybe i translated it wrong, not sure.



You do realize that the act of aiming would be the process of choosing the target to lock on to, nit holding the target locked?

So how is the selection done? As that is the pointing action that needs to be modelled!!! (I do not understand how that wasn’t obvious, since that is the work the operator of the fcs has to do, therefore the task that needs to be emulated… Agin obvious)

I am fine with a system in WT that hold the target after it was selected. Doesn’t change the fact that the target selection cannot be done by mouse aim.

It also doesn’t explain why an M4 sherman having mouse aim is realistic.

So… This is completely missing the point.

It is a video game. Not real life. If you made this require flight sticks and Xbox or PS controllers then you immediately have killed the SB gamemode entirely. I’m unsure if you’ve done research but flight sticks are expensive and most don’t have force feedback since it was kind of forgotten.

Play Gunner Heat PC. That is the mouse control we should be using in Sim. Or even just the mouse joystick found in aircraft that instead functions for your turret control.

FCS is locking onto the entire vehicle and putting it through the center of mass.

Mouse aim is taking that a step further and deciding which individual pixel you want to shoot on the tank, even a tiny optic on the top of the turret. It’s not realistic

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See that’s why i say that a psychomotor equivalent is okay as well. “Mouse joystick” exists.
No need to buy anything.

Also you cannot kill whaat neves has existed. SB the way it is is just RB the players will just play that instead. It doesn’t offer a unique experience and therefore a perfect sibstitute already exists. No loss here

How is force Feedback necessary?

Also a logitech 3d is cheaper than a premium vehicle.

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Did already and i do not agree.
If your speaking of Modern yes, however WW2 would function completely differently.

For aircraft, force feedback yanks the stick. It gives you a higher level of feeling since you get a better idea of how fast you are going. If you haven’t used it you wouldn’t entirely understand the higher sense of flight.

I know what Force feedback is. I asked why it is necessary for the controls?

Ihad a force feedback stick i get that it gives you a better feeling. None of that answers my question: Why is it necessary. You can stil have a flight sim without it. You can’t have it with mouse aim. That was the premise.

So i reiterate, why is force feedback a necessity for sim tank controls?
I agree that it is “nice to have” but i don’t see it being necessary, since it isn’t needed to emulate the tanks or a planes functionality itself.

Which is only doable in ground AB and RB due to gun paralax in sim.

If you make sim ground clunkier you end its already limited playerbase and the mode dies.
The reason why air sim is popular is because the controls aren’t clunkier than air RB, in-fact they’re easier than mouse aim due to the cockpit view.

You essentially have to offer something easier than mouse aim for ground sim.

which is irrelevant since there is a substitute good, so no customers are lost.

It is better havoing no SB at al than having SB be a shooter.

Steelbeasts, GHPC, all have audiences, there is no reason why a proper SB wouldn’t

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Steel Beasts is unironically less realistic than GHPC, which itself is less realistic than War Thunder.
What Steel Beasts does is switchology and general crew training… it does not simulate combat to any realistic extent at all; the most realistic combat in Steel Beasts is having the same exact ballistics and armor system that War Thunder and GHPC themselves use.

i was talking in terms of the controls… this should be rather obvious, since that’s what we were talking about.

you are doing thi son purpose right? you can’t be that daft.

if their controls don’t turn off audiences than proper controls won’t be the death of WT SB either. do you understand that concept?


Planes it’s not necessary but they provide a lot more info. In terms of the sense of feeling.
For ground just use a controller. If you dislike people using a mouse aim.
Most will not use a controller also death is an over exaggeration. It’s more that there will be far less matches.

A controller would be fine, my argument is rather that such controls would need to be enforced, since otherwise the tanks behave unrealistic, due to the advantages of mouse aim.


Do you understand the concept of Good Ideas and Bad Ideas as well as long-term and short-term effects? cause I seriously think you need to go read those definitions. Cause what you want is known as a bad idea with negative connotations that are disguised to be a good idea.

To put it simply, the majority are mouse and keyboard. Locking that away will send them either to air RB, GRB, or customs.

You functionally have ended the relevancy of Sim battles. Mind you the word is RELEVANCY.
Not Dead. Relevancy=the population isn’t dead however it is no longer going to grow and will slowly fade into obscurity in a slow death.

the next suggestion from GrafvonZahl is probably that we should play in a log cabin without a PC monitor and without electricity.

for the bomber gunner view in airplanes to remove the mouse and to improve the own AI gunner I agree but …for tanks?! … whaaat

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