Grind for the concept 3

Game Discussion General Discussion
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41

the baffling decision to purposely make an unrealistic game while spending so much time making the playing pieces so realistic.Its like spending hours hand carving amazing chess pieces only to play draughts with them.

This is where I disagree and I think you’re not understanding the scale of the issue. Realism in the way you are describing cannot exist because there are too many missing pieces to support it, time travellers are the least of the problem.

To use your chess analogy, War Thunder having tanks and aircraft can at best be likened to a game of chess where only the Knight and The Queen are on the battlefield.

(Knights being tanks, Queen being Aircraft and the pawns, bishop, rook, king representing the infantry, politics, fortifications and logistics that form the majority of war)

To my perspective, war thunder being a vehicle sim, is such a limited perspective of war as a whole, that attempting to create ‘realictic encounters’ between vehicles of specific era’s is completely redundant.

At all Battle rating regardless of era, the battle are highly mobile and energetic, the tanks are fighting like infantry or mecha (like mechwarrior or armored core for example). Even the famous blitzkrieg was a static battle compared to what is playing out in ground battles in war thunder. WW2 vehicles are driving around and shooting as if it were the battle of 73 easting.

The most crucial piece of any genuine tank battle is missing from war thunder and that is the fixed/towed anti tank gun. Without this there is no point even considering realism as an option.

In short, none of the tanks in game are behaving anything like tanks in reality in my perspective is not and never has been the capacity in game to accommodate realsitic vehicle behaviour. I think Gaijin has done well to understand this and to allow vehicles to be sorted by player competancy and not by performance or Era.

Tank combat is short, terrifying and frantic exchanges of fire where brave and professional tankers maintain their compsure under fire long enough to survive. In between these brief engagements are long pauses characterised by preparation, tension and boredom.

The battlefields in reality were rarely what could be considered a fair or even match.

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is it ? If it is then having no game is a missed opportunity. I might agree that the vehicle reproduction is impressive and its a shame the game itself trails so far behind ,true.

You cant say there is no problem then go on to give a list of problems like its an answer to the problem : ) You are agreeing if you do that not disagreeing.

What we need is a game where the on field play mirrors the quality of effort put into the individual vehicles.

Like I said chess pieces on a draughts board.

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You cant say there is no problem then go on to give a list of problems like its an answer to the problem : ) You are agreeing if you do that not disagreeing.

I’m arguing that you stop saying realism.

My summary of your complaints is as such.

“I have personal expectations, my expectations are that world war 2 vehicles should fight world war 2 vehicles. I think if my expectations were met, the game experience would be improved for everyone”

Realism isn’t a factor, don’t invoke in support of your arguments is all I’m saying, stop abusing the word.

War thunder aims to produce accurate facsimilies of vehicles, it does not aim to reproduce the circumstances or environments in which they fought.

I think war thunder is a better game for allowing accurate representations of vehicles to fight each other. We already know the outcomes of WW2, Korea, Vietnam, Yom Kippur, Desert Storm. We already know what happened when Shermans fought Panzer IVs, Panthers and Tigers.

The beauty of war thunder is that it allows us to experience all of the battles that weren’t in history. Theoretical fights, between vehicles that were produced but never fired shots in anger.

I feel like what you are describing as an issue and trying to fix, would impose unnecessary and unhelpful restrictions on peoples ability to express themselves through gameplay.

I think it’s really interesting to discover a 1980s prototype scout car was a hunk of shit that’s only fit to fight tanks produced 40 years before that. I think it’s interesting to see how titans of armour and firepower are undone my light and agile vehicles, regardless of when they are built. I think it interesting that when used skillfully vehicles from ww2 pose a serious threat to cold war vehicles.

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44

Im saying ,Dont spend so long bothering to get vehicles right when there is no reason for it.
Spend the time on making the game play better.Give us better maps ,give us a better aerial tasks ,don’t overburden us with unnecessary detail that is of no value.
Don’t even have an interest in the true thickness of a tanks armour if you are not going to use it in a way that in even relevant.

Drop the pretense of realism when there is none as its only limiting the game anyway in so many ways.
If balance is the king then forget about what nation had what in reality. Don’t bring people into the game with promises of realism only for them to find none.

That is what I am saying pure and simple so you dont have to guess what I am saying.

No the beauty of War Thunder is that its fun to shoot things and watch them go bang.
There are no other elements to the game that is my point entirely.Its about who makes the most things go bang and that is it. The rest of the forum is about all the things that should be in the game and are not.

You support a reasonable version game and I yearn for a brilliant one,that is all.
Gaijin dont need to change much thoguh if they are making the money and I believe they are. Second rate filler is offered and by the likes of you accepted so why strive for anything better?

Incidentally I speak for myself here but I find also that I represent a movement of people who think the same as I do and in rather large numbers it seems.

Gaijin didn’t have to run a forum for our opinions but it has done so here mine are.

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Stop pretending to be so noble, I’m supportimg the merits of the game as it presents itself. You are arguing for your selfish desires and claiming they constitute a better gameplay experience.

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46

I’m not pretending

You are supporting the newer bad direction the game is taking.

No because I invented nothing,I am simply supporting a movement that existed with this game a while before I joined.
You are supporting immaturity within the game and trying to appear clever by doing so but there is nothing clever about lazily filling space in a line up with any old rubbish.

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I will forever be confused by this statement.

Many people want to play realistic tanks but dont want to play historical mm.

For years, there were two choices
A: play a game with unrealistic tanks but more balanced gameplay
B: play a game with realistic tanks but more unbalanced gameplay

Yes, war thunder is far from historical in its mm. I doubt anyone would disagree with that.

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48

Soooooo some people want the Concept 3 to fight the 1980s Abrams M1 just because it was made in the late 1970s? Nah, Concept 3 using WW2 tech. Not 1980s tech…Tank’s Br are set by performance in game, not on their year date.

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49

Like who? All I see on here is people complaining about BR and the uptier and imbalance.Facing a tank that has night vision and 400mm of pen when all they have no NV and 200mm or being in a WW2 prop facing a Mig 15.

I can understand the loss of immersion but why celebrate it? Even odbawls the
Youtube hero had to laugh when they put the 80s time traveler into a WW2 game and face it off against Panzer 4s.

How many posts on this forum or the old one do you see making the same complaints about era or some form of issue related to it ?

Why are you telling me this like its a good thing ? I know that and tha is the complaint with the game. I saw WoT had old tanks facing new and I gave it a wide berth early on.I never saw any advert with WT where it showed badly mixed eras and its not really until 4BR that it creeps in in one or two places and by that time you are already well into it.

Its just a general criticism that the vehicle making is good but the game play and maps the vehicles are pretty poor.Maybe while Gaijin has a legion of fans like you to accept that and defend it for them it will never change in any way.

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How about another fantasy scenario where they remove the Concept 3 and put something that fits into its place or never did such a stupid thing in the first place?
Give it APDS and a less wonky gun put it higher up.

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Most people who play the game. If they wanted that other options, they would be playing those.

That has nothing to do with it. Balance will not be perfect and people will always complain when they face an uptier on the forum.

Because i dont expect historical mm in war thunder.

For others it is a good thing. Just because you dont like it doesnt mean other people cant.

Im happy that i dont have to worry about fighting some tank that i am vastly outmatched by. That is something i find annoying when i play more historical games. But im fine with it in those because they are historical games.

I dont think i have ever said anything good about the maps. They keep messing with them and cant seem to make a decent large map.
I wish we had some more gamemodes too.

I like the game but i do not blindly support everything they do. If you want, i can make a list of some of the top things i dislike.

1 Like
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Funnily enough wouldn’t be too bad with how weak the Abam’s turret ring is.

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This whole thread reads like “I want to drive a tiger and club Sherman’s, and facing fast tanks with good guns breaks my plan”

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54

Give it APDS and make the gun behave better and move it where it belongs.Take the rest of the SA rubbish with it.Leave WW2 as WW2

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Go play Simulator mode if that’s what you want.

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Ground realistic ,clue is in the title

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Realistic ≠ Historical

Its realistic relative to arcade mode at best.

If you want to recreate history thats what sim is for and even then its still War Thunder not DCS.

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58

Sim is not GRB like UFC 5 is not War Thunder.

The issue we have is that despite what you and others say this game does still try to create a WW2 cannon .It has WW2 maps ,WW2 planes ,WW2 decals ,WW2 celebrations of heroes and battles.It also makes sure its vehicles adhere to WW2 standards of armour and ammo hence why the UK have no MG on roofs and APHE.To say that this game does not bow to WW2 is wrong.

Consideration must have been given to why Gaijin didt want Israel in any “WW2” levels in BR

So somebody somewhere still has a mind set of WW2

My solution would be to have two divisions one with mostly WW2 and tanks of that meta or cannon and another modern division starting around 4BR that can allow all the new nations in such as Turkey or Brazil and allow all those AFV suggestions to be implemented without effecting the current fleet of WW2 tanks we have.

You could bring in new nations without worrying about historical grievances and you bring in so many soft skin or wheeled vehicles in and create a new low tier for already existing but out of place vehicles we have in game and fill the spaces with something more fitting.

Think of all the new nations and vehicles you could have.I have issue with eradicating history in one division while keeping it in another.

Div 1 could have light ATGM capability at much lower BR without upsetting any WW2 canon regarding vehicles or the player base.

So its not all blind negativity it about advancing the game and letting all those excluded nations in. South America,India,Arab Nations etc and at a lower BR with destroying the concept of old tanks.
The game does need to move on and to do so it needs to break its current constraints.

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That’s literally what they do in Sim mode so if that’s what you want its not unreasonable for me to refer you there.

Doing it again in GRB would just divide the playerbase and cause more logistical issues for matchmaking.

Israel has a tank as low as 4.3 BR which does see WWII tanks, its next tank is 6.0 which still sees Panthers, another WWII tank.

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60

It has a WW2 gun with WW2 FCS and WW2 armor. Out of all the technically non-WW2 tanks to complain about, why the Concept 3?