So i was playing a few matches with my su-30sm and i thought screw it i play a match with my su27sm and the difference in gameplay is very obvious the su27sm struggles compared to the su30 so i believe to even out the su27 and many other russian aircraft like mig29smt and su34 should be given the r77-1 if you disagree please give a real reason rather then russian bias thank you
1 Like
Giving them R-77-1s will probably force them up in BR, and that wouldn’t be good for the aircraft. You’re also assuming that they are even able to carry R-77-1s to begin with.
5 Likes
i dont want to increase the BR on them since everything else on them is rather supbar or lacking, like giving the R-77-1s to the SM would attleast make it 14.0 and i dont want to play 14.0 with that fuckass N001VEP
3 Likes
no
if anything 27SM should already go up in BR, it absolutely does not need better missiles
1 Like
Hey are mediocre at the BR anyways, giving them R-77-1, just makes them even more mediocre at a higher BR
3 Likes
R-77-1 is an equivalent if not better than the Aim-120C5.
As we have seen with the F-16I, Aim-120C5s forced an aircraft to 14.0 that probably should be 13.7
So if you want every single soviet aircraft at 14.0 or 14.3 because they have R-77-1 sure, but they wont be staying put
5 Likes
It’s a fine 13.7, but it would be bad at 14.0.
The Mig-29SMT would be 13.7 with them.
1 Like
Mig-29smt seriously needs some love till we get the Mig-35
Does it? Geniunely asking.
Its 13.3 FOX-3 slinger with HMS and 116x CMs (60x standard, 56x LCM), on top of that it can replace some of its ARHs with IRCCM missiles.
compare that to other 13.3 ARH slingers
- F-16 ADF which has fraction of CMs - 45x (30x standard and 15x LCM) and no HMS and no ability to mount IRCCM missiles (but gets better FM),
- JF17 which has once again less CMs (64x LCMs), can carry less ARHs in total and gets no HMS (but gets MAWs if im reading it correctly). No idea about its FM.
So there are some tradeoffs when compared to the other two planes. Someone can add how F-16D Barak II fits into all of this because I cant geniunely recall the last time i saw this plane in a game.
Su-30MK2 at 13.3 isnt an argument as that thing shouldnt really be 13.3 to begin with.
4 Likes
Base SM cannot use R-77-1.
1 Like
Better dogfighter than 16ADF actually
- Engine is quite weak though, gun is also crap
-Strong radar
-MAW
-Good RWR
-PL-12s (SD-10A) are some of the best fox3s in game, up to 4 of them
-PL5EIIs are some of the best IR missiles, but you’d not sacrifice the PL-12 double rack for 1 PL5
5 Likes
Honestly the SMT is fine where it is.
I haven’t played it since the Su-30MK got released though, might give it a try tomorrow.
you have 6 ARH with the option to bring IRs if wanted
You have a great radar
you are fast with good acceleration
Your countermeasures are great- no complaints from me with 56 large and 60 standard
the RWR is adequate
Literally the only thing stopping the SMT from being a direct competitor to the F-16C is the flight model, hence 13.3.
(Oh and the fact the Su-27SM would be a pretty much straight upgrade at 13.7 anyway)
The SMT does sit at the same BR as the J-11A and Su-30MK2 however as I’m sure has already been mentioned, those things do not belong at 13.3
1 Like
Considering it has one the worse mig flight models yes plus it can see aircraft that out perform it in all fields plus we haven’t had anything happen to migs in a long time beside the addition of a Hungarian mig
such is the nature of being a heavier 29. Still hoping that missing STR bugreport actually gets acted upon.
It’s called an uptier…
At 13.3 though, you’d be hard pressed to find an aicraft better in all fields
Sure the F-16D Barak II is an arguement but at least in my experience (you may have different) the SMT was a lot more enjoyable
1 Like
and yet, it has HMS advantage over JF-17 and F-16 ADFs. And more CMs.
not issue unique to the 29SMT
point being? we havent had a new Phantom since KWS.
3 Likes
Don’t mean to go all the way back to the start but I didn’t initially pick up on this
There’s a reason one of these 2 aircraft sits at 14.3 while the other 13.7
2 Likes
Having spaded it, the problem with the MiG-29SMT is that it’s a brick.
The base MiG-29 already starts feeling bad when turning, now imagine a heavier version of it but without the more powerful engine variant it should have. That’s the SMT for you.
And let’s be real, the meta loadout for planes that can carry 6 ARH/IR missiles interchangeably would either be 6 ARH or 5 but with one IR (assuming that it’s IRCCM). This means that the lack of IRCCM is only a slight downgrade in a case like this.
As for the Barak (which I’ve also spaded) the Derby missile is roughly on par with the R-77 unless it’s an ultra-high-off-boresight shot. This means that you have to get close to the enemy plane to guarantee a kill. This is something the Barak can do as it’s an F-16 (even though it definitely has the worst FM of any variant) and can notch quickly. The MiG-29SMT is also capable of doing a quick notch but it acts like an airbrake whilst doing any turn (much less a notch) so you won’t have any energy left. This has gotten me killed many times.
The SMT is fast but can’t keep its speed even if its life depended on it.
The Barak also has like 160 flares, which is a very nice upgrade over the other F-16s.
The F-16A ADF has a very good FM for 13.3 and can therefore somewhat counteract the lack of flares. It’s absolutely a weakness but it can play around them unlike the SMT.
And as for the Su-30MK2 I can absolutely agree that it’s very much on the strong end of 13.3. It’s a bit too strong at 13.3 but too weak for 13.7. The Su-27SM (13.7) has the same airframe as the base one (not 1000kg heavier like the Su-30MK2) but with upgraded engines and extra R-77s.
If you think that the Su-30MK2 has the same FM as the Su-30SM you’d also be wrong. The Su-30SM has stronger engines while the -MK2 gets the same ones found on the base Flanker. It could IMO go to either 13.0 or 13.7 if you remove the R-77 and replace it either with the R-27ER or R-77-1.
While it isn’t mainly about the Su-30MK2 you can still see the strong sides/flaws of it explained shortly here: The Su-34 is overtiered and should go to 13.3 (comparison with J-11A and Su-30MK2)
1 Like
been while since i played german 29s. how worse were talking?
still a downgrade, combined with lack of HMS and smalle CM count with ADF and JF-17, argument could be made that these two more than enough compensate for bad FM. tradeoffs and what not.
Im aware that it has weaker engines when compared to TT Su-30. My main issue with Su-30MK2 is the missile count, which is simply unheard of for 13.3.
Normally, high missile count is there to compensate for either weaker FM, smaller CM amount, or lack of HMS or some combination of them. Say, KWS and other 13.0 ARH slingers.
But Su-30MK2 does have HMS, same amount of CMs as Su-27SM, IIRC same RWR, IIRC same radar, and similiar FM to Su-27SM bar being 1000kg heavier. Its closer in performance to Su-27SM than it is to MiG-29SMT and other 13.3 planes. So id rather see it move to 13.7. Argument that it would be worse to Su-27SM and thus they cant share BR cannot stand - the differences arent big enough to warrant a different BR, and its perfectly reasonable for premium to be slightly worse than TT variant.
but I digress from my initial comment which was dealing with question of 29SMT recieving R-77-1s, to which I think the answer is no with slight leaning to “maybe, if the statistics show it performs significantly worse than its contemporaries”.
1 Like
it is a quite noticeable increase in weight
Gaijin could to the funny “Early” and “Late” versions thing of planes with updated missiles like they did with the FOX-3 viggen