His idea is a little too large and would be the ground equivalent to The English Channel map. It wouldn’t be a bad thing if it was for a superior version of World War Mode but to be quite frank, I don’t trust the devs with it, the last 2 were disasters in the hearts of the community as the issues of that mode were probably some of the easiest solutions->Chat, translator(Something still lacking) and team and global VOIP which for some reason is seen or treated as a unnecessary feature.
Highly agree!
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After playing this game since 2014 and never contributing on the Forums or reddit to all the discussions i really felt i had to log in this one time and give my two cents.
I really dont feel like his idea or the size of the map is too large at all (considering i guess we’re talking the higher Tiers like 8.0 and upwards with most tanks going roughly 50 kph or even faster)
doing a rough estimate based on the map size of eastern europe on which the dutch (or whatever that copy paste thing the snail did with it is supposed to be)is based on, which according to wiki should be 4x4 km his map should be roughly 10 x 10 km. A Tank doing 50 kph on this (out of town) mostly flat map with a lot of open fields without cover is going ~13.9 m/s. To get to the middle of the map (supposedly around where the main front would establish) takes u 360 seconds so estimated 6 minutes.
Seriously how is 6 minutes of driving too long for ppl? Considering there could be objectives at like 1/3 or 1/4 the distance to mid map and stuff to do in between and even enemies like scouts and light tanks that push far beyond the mid map objectives into enemy territory? Almost like moving, planning your movement and scouting/anticipating where enemy forces are was a real thing in vehicle combat.
What if - wild suggestion i know - The spawns at first wouldnt be all the way back at the start of the match?? Lets say yellow square or a couple more are first main objectives and the blue and red squares closest to that are first stage spawns. Once one team controls the majority of those central map objectives for a certain amount of time (meaning one team is pushed back) spawns open up for the team in disadvantage/retreat and their old spawns become the new objectives you need to hold and control. Meaning you have an actual moving frontline with objectives close to said frontline you are fiighting about with spawn areas (or even spawn locations that could be set up by engineering class vehicles or the commander) which would mean you would have a much more realistic map setup in which it would be much harder to get spawntrapped or spawncamped (Given that the commander in artillery or aa had some sort of tool to find and call out sneaky vehicles attempting to do so, which would then be like a spy mission to not get found by drones deep behind enemy lines).
Or is vehicle combat basically call of duty but with an engine? Is it really that every map and new map creation has to cater to the tik tok generation that needs to spawn, drive 10 metres and shoot into the enemy spawn with modern! tanks that go 60 kph and fire laserprecision darts with 1800 m/s that pen anywhere (Looking at you winter version of Wallonia u absolute abomination of a bad map. Hull down positions for one team from spawn to shoot into the other teams spawn)?
10 000s of games in and most tech trees researched and most spaded i gotta tell you: Those old maps work, they are not bad. For BR 4.0. 20 kph tanks with slow shells that are hard to hit, heavy tanks and hiding in bushes. Now with Gen 3 Commander Thermals, Drones with thermals and modern cas, whats the point grinding for 1000s of hours just to sit on the same 2000 x 2000 m maps with half of it out of bounds anyways with 3 lanes to push or sit behind building corners it just gets old. Like dead boring old. Show me any of the existing small and medium maps i can easily point you to 3 power positions and 2 lanes that are important to push and if thats not done or u lose footing there ur spawntrapped 2 min in the match with enemies having all the sp to bomb ur spawn and wipe the people out that survived on the flanks.
Like really guys, on roughly half the maps you push the objective which is 1 km from your spawn and from there u have access to positions to control the rest of the map. Much tactics involved. Funnel everything into 2 or 3 chokepoints or campfest behind builings and get it over with in 2 minutes. And dont even get me started with one cap maps. Despite being a sometimes nice variety in gameplay having that with the same amount of players i dont know what to tell you.
Like, why not try something like this out in an ec format with one map and see how ppl like it? Maybe even only for sim? the maps already there? Make wider spawn areas, more caps or pbjectives and slow down the ticket bleed 10 times, infinite respawns or idk, i am honestly begging the snail try something different. It’s been what? 12 years man and i really really would love to enjoy the game with all the vehicles and mechanics for the years to come and be excited about its development instead of being stuck in this hamster wheel of spawn, die, spawn, die on the same old tiny maps. Dont get me wrong those are good and i enjoy them from time to time but man. I’m tired i guess.
EDIT: Spelling and added a paragraph
8 Likes
Like, give us a ground rb mode, with one or two ppl being able to spawn as commanding vehivle in antiair or artillery with proper artillery implementation being able to give orders to groups of people moving in a squad or a general area of the map, let that run for an hour or 1,5 hours. Infinite respawns with sp system as is implemented for cas and cap and if someone leaves early refill the session with ppl in queue. Increase the area ground map textures to the map that OP posted with more and different objectives like idk, securing or retrieving allied troops and bring them safely to a certain location, doing reconnaisance missions behind enemy lines, or whatever
2 Likes
My guy, considering you have been playing for over 10 years you are or should be completely aware of just how damn annoying the English Channel maps were even when it was cut down people left immediately. Since they were not fun maps.
If I have to drive 6 minutes just to be instantly killed by who knows where. Then that isn’t a case of being impatient that’s a case of being annoyed since you will need to repeat this cycle again and again.
Just finished reading everything else and you completely failed to understand what this game is, what you want is not what this game is. Now there are things YOU could implement such as giving Command Tanks a proper role in the game. However generally most are going to ignore you, no in-game translator, VOIP, and limited squad commands aren’t helping. Communication.
A lot of the ideas you had could work at a far smaller scale, however, to fully integrate your ideas would need to fix World War Mode and I don’t think that mode is ever going to return considering Mk 0->0.5-0.1 were all disasters. Felt like Gaijin wasn’t even trying to work on it. Or at the very best failed to take notice of the massive problems.
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Painfully terrible take and luckily I see the perfect map right after yours in response. That whole road on A side is a lane, which one side has access to before the other. You can’t get to A without it, it has no cover and is 100% completely, totally and utterly a lane for one side off the break. Later in the game it can be a lane for either side once one loses it, but it is certainly a lane. What he described with his drawings is a route, yeah, but he put his routes over the lane.
The devs don’t like to think outside the box, large maps with different objectives would be fun, Especially at top tier… I would even like to see some like enduring confrontation where you spend more time in a battle.
Also with larger maps we could have larger teams.
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@RavenGuardMarine
Of course your perfect map is that…
World of Tanks must be your ideal.
Otherwise you’re insulting Red Desert which is far worse.
Try re-reading what I wrote. I said you have a painfully terrible take, because the perfect response to your claim that “war thunder has no lanes” is the map right below in their response to you.
I never said it was a perfect map, just that you’re wrong.
2 Likes
Dude how did you get your player profile icon? Is that something you did in-game to get?
That was one of the rewards in the Sword of Justice event.
I admittedly did the event mostly for that icon. Haven’t even touched the Jaguar IS yet… ;-)
Nice, good job.
Well i never played world war mode or the english channel map you’re referring to (as far as i know). Obviously just blindly driving for 6 minutes while being able to be shot from anywhere by sneaky light tanks wouldnt be the most exciting gameplay but as i tried to figure out there could be ways around that no? Dynamic spawnpoints so that in the beginning you would spawn 2 or 3 km from the mid map frontline which would then move back/forth depending on which team has the advantage. These distances wouldnt be much different from what we’re havin in game now at medium or big maps while providing a much bigger map and strategic options overall, supporting more vehicle classes than the one that excels at the 2 km² shitfest you were unlucky being thrown into (yes yes abandoned cityfactoryoutskirtswhatever hiding behind buildings on flat maps in your amx 50 TO 30 facing merkavas and t55ams) and would 1: give snipers or long range engagements a chance to actually take place again and be viable (hopefully without) 2: completely denying light tanks and mediums that are more movement based a chance to move closer to the frontline on routes with vegetation or other cover (map design problem) and 3: some sort of commander and comms based mechanic to at least inform your teammates on such big maps roughly in which area enemies are pushing or are trying to get behind your lines.
All of this would in my opinion massively boost the longlivety (that an english word? no idea) of the game and provide much more versatile and enticing gameplay than the same old clusterfuck we have nowadays 24/7 on the same old cramped maps, sitting in the same old spots hoping/knowing someone has to push around that corner at one point.
as i said the gameplay as is is more or less fine for the low tier ww2 tanks up to 5.0 or something which it seems the dimensions for the small and medium maps are totally enough with unstabilized guns and much less mobility and slower shells though some big maps would also be awesome for lower (<4 or 5.0) tanks. I do understand that obviously this is the main gamemode and most played, to which i feel the need to grind and progress in the nations u want to research also plays a big part. To do so you need action and a lot of chances to gain rp and sl in as little time as possible (or at least thats the feeling you get when playing the game and you are a player that wants to progress as quickly as possible). Now, once you finished grinding or dont feel the need to do that as quickly as possible the whole idea of just rushing in mindlessly trying to get to strong positions and go on killing sprees gets rly rly old. Like, spawn, see enemy shoot get killed repeat all in a matter of 30 seconds is not unusual.
I bet 75% of matches are basically over and decided in the first 2 minutes because u died once in the position u need to hold, now the enemy has the sp from killing you, the sp from the caps, holds the advantageous positions and is able to spawn cas. Man oh man i wonder why all those matches are absolute stompfests with maybe 10% of matches being acctually exciting beyond the 10 minute mark. After that theres the really enjoyable matches with teamwork, much less players working together, unknown outcome and amazing comebacks. Why not have more of those?
Like how can those ideas not coexist? most of the stuff ive read so far in the forums is usually always ppl fighting with each other like the idea or suggestions that ppl make would be an absolute not like trying to find ideas together of how to improve or add interesting stuff to the game (which i guess most are doing but then theres those other idiots with different ideas, man i hate those)? Ppl that want to play the 1 km² clusterfucks should and could be able to do so, perfectly fine with me i enjoyed those long enough and will still keep enjoying those. but why does that have to be the only option? with all the stuff that is already in game it just feels it wouldnt be that difficult to implement such a gamemode with much different gameplay and variety than just doing the same thing for decades.
4 Likes
Oh and i remembered this whole thing with the much bigger maps would also easily give the opportunity to introduce fractions of those big maps as standalone medium/small sized ground rb maps again, as it was usual with several ground rb maps which were then cut in 2 or 3 parts from big–>sim medium → rb Like Sinai/Sands of sinai, all the ardennes abbreviations, Kuban, Tunisia, Volokolamsk and wallonia as it was with a lot of the old maps. They all had multiple parts which provided awesome variations to those maps some even with completely different cap layout or turned 90°. Like what happened to that idea? Quickly checking all new maps dont even give the option for that anymore. they are standalone maps with one size just battle/Domination or different cap setups, no options for even bigger sim maps? Most of the map variations still on the wiki i havent even seen once in the last two years? Theres versions of mozdok that i still remember matches from like 3 years ago and havent seen since and are probably out of rotation.Just feel really sad that those ideas of variable gameplay on rare maps that u dont immediately know where u want or have to go seems to have been thrown completely out of the window, here play normandy or seversk 13 5 times in a row.
There isn’t. You seriously need to stop writing 50 page essays. Cause its getting harder to read everything that’s of value.
As much as I understand this point, firstly if ur driving 6 minutes and then get killed you are not instantly killed are you? you drove for 6 minutes, then got killed ;-) as i said before (i think) i get that there needs to be mechanics that tone this problem down a lot. But you know whats also annoying? Considering you are uptiered or heavily uptiered in at least 50% of matches repeating the cycle again and again on the same maps knowing that once your team has lost footing the enemy team has all advantages and you have to spawn in inferior tanks, without air support (in general because the enemy team has access to a much bigger sp pool) and superior tanks possibly sitting behind every corner of every building on city maps which make up like 50% of the map pool. now why would people leave those matches after one death instead of feeding more sp and sl to the enemy team i ask myself? One push, to mid map, 500m on small maps to 1 km on big maps, u have buildings/corners u can corner peek into the enemy spawn or hull/tank down positions sitting and just waiting for enemies to move without being aware of your position and just farm them.
Fields of Poland, Normandy, Wallonia, Mozdok its always the same. Cap, get your footing there and from there free view from better positions into enemy spawns effectively trapping the enemy team there while the guys from your team that died have an easy time knowing where enemies are and will appear at. Seems like people hate getting spawncamped (understandably) but still love the maps that promote this as best tactic to win the match (through just drive 300 m from those superior positions mid map to sit behind a hill just outside of the enemy spawn). One could argue about the differences of spawntrapping, match is over spawncamping and blatant spawncamping ofc but thats not the topic. Just that the vast majority of matches on most maps are won this way i bet. But have you been spawncamped or completely spawntrapped on Red Desert, Big Volokolamsk Or Big Fulda? Im quite sure that didn’t happen to me once. (Maybe except Top tier with total CAS Dominance)
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Posting a take from another topic since I only thought of it today:
The standard for city maps BTW should be Breslau and Sweden.
The standard for maps that feature cities/towns/urban environments should be Tunisia, Arctic, and Iberian Castle.
And the standard for large open maps should be Red Desert, Carpathians, Sands of Sinai, and Pradesh.
The standard for small maps should be Karelia. Finding a 2nd good amazing map was impossible at this time
I think it’s important to have large 3x3 and 4x4 maps in the game.
5x5 is where IDK, obviously spawn sniping in a 5x5 map is effectively impossible
Maybe we need more objectives, but I have a feeling that’s also waiting for Gaijin to finish all the overhauls they’re working on…
And larger than 25km^2 is getting overtly too big.
Especially whenever Gaijin fixes MBT mobility [nerfs] to realistic levels.
I’m rather sick of playing CQC/CQB on every map whether it’s on a single cap point, in a town, or in my own dam spawn hahah
the last 2 years ish have just been smaller and smaller maps. why have 20-35km ATGM and have a map where I can spit into the next spawn and yell Jerry on the B cap from spawn?
3 Likes
We used to have an option on bigger maps to take something fast like an M18 and try to drive right around the edges and try to flank and hopefully invest three or four minutes of driving time and turn it into a few kills from a very good position.It was a gamble.
It could pay off greatly or it could be serious game time wasted but it was your choice.You could get a nice clear run and be rewarded four or five kills or be taken out by CAS after two minutes or just run into an enemy trying the same trick and get nothing.
At least you had that choice.Same running wide with a Flak88 or Yag in a sniping spot.
Some games five or six kills, some games nothing at all because nothing passed you by.
It was like fishing.
That was the gamble and it was fun.Now all those options are gone and the game is so one dimensional and boring.The ability to fire across the map as well as up and down are gone and it does not lend itself to repeat play.
A couple of games on a small narrow map is enough,we need that variation back.
I think that is why new players lack the passion the old players had.It was a bit more hardcore in GRB but that is where the dedicated fan base existed.