Give the Type 16 (Type 16 (FPS) & Type 16 (P)) Type 93 APFSDS and put them to 9.7

M735 is literal trash at 9.3, especially since it was revised and it can’t penetrate more than 292mm flat, yet both Type 16s are consistently fighting against 10.0 or 10.3 lineups, which get 500+mm pen APFSDS round (Stryker), because they are magical .7 BR higher, just give the Type 16s the Type 93 APFSDS round and put them at 9.7

The Rooikat 105 sits at the same 9.3 BR and has the DM33 APFSDS 105mm round, which is miles better than the M735 APFSDS shot.

Comparison between what Type 16 (FPS) & (P) get at 9.3 and what Rooikat 105 gets at 9.3, and comparing it to the Type 93 APFSDS that both Type 16s should get.


292 247 169 | 408 344 236 | 405 342 234 | 10m
291 245 168 | 405 342 234 | 403 340 233 | 100m
284 240 164 | 398 336 230 | 396 334 229 | 500m
275 232 159 | 389 328 225 | 388 327 224 | 1000m
266 224 154 | 379 320 219 | 378 319 218 | 1500m
257 216 148 | 370 312 214 | 370 312 214 | 2000m


The 105mm DM33 is better than the Type 93 APFSDS, but it’s somehow fine that the Rooikat has it at 9.3, but it isn’t fine if Japan would have it at 9.3, Fine Japan needs to suffer because those have Gen 3 Thermals but everything else worse, understandable, policy of Gaijin … That’s why I’m saying give them Type 93 APFSDS shot and move them up to 9.7 so we can still suffer, but at least our shots wont bounce on every tank with some armor past 500m.

P.S. Even the worse DM23 Rooikat 105 gets is better than the M735, talking about nonsense. Both vehicles at 9.3, madness.

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I’d rather just have them go down to 9.0 so Japan can have an actual lineup for once, alongside the Type 74 G that doesn’t need a BR increase for gen 1 thermals either.

Type 16 at 9.0 would still have one of the worst shells out of all of them with the only good thing about the Type 16 being gen 3 thermals, so you can get a good luck at the vehicles you can’t kill.

Either way having a modern IFV get rolled over and over at 10.3 because Gaijin gives it a shell from the '70s is stupid.

6 Likes

I agree. The same thing should be done with the XM-1 by giving it M774.

Penetration is not the issue with M735, but rather the post pen IMO. It just doesn’t exist sometimes, and it also inconsistent too.

You are fully capable of killing everything under 9.7-10.0 easily with M735. The issue is the Leopards and some Russian tanks. It should never be facing 8.0 tanks in the games current state.

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We need decompression first. Yeah, taking the Type 16 P into an uptier against M1s and Leo 2 which are almost as quick as you, but with much better guns and actual armor is rather unfair. But so is going up against M48A2 Gs and M60A1 AOSs in a downtier. This thing against low mobility, non-LRF vehicles on large maps is just plain unfair. Being able to position wherever you want and spot targets with ease make them pretty oppressive on the right map.

Or, more simply, just revert the unhistorical nerf to M735. A tech mod has already come out and said that the post that got it nerfed got several things wrong. Revert that, and it won’t be nearly as much of a problem being stuck with it at 9.3.

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You are fully capable of killing everything under 9.7-10.0 easily with M735. The issue is the Leopards and some Russian tanks. It should never be facing 8.0 tanks in the games current state.

Oh well, good thing no one plays the Turms or the Leopards then, you will almost never see those right?
And 8.0 faces a lot worse than a Type 16.

How is that any different from the PTL, WMA, XM-1, Class 3P, BMD-4, TAM and whatnot already doing faces 8.0? Most of which have an equal or better shell, better armor, better mobility etc.

It is unfair to go up against 8.0 with any of these things, but no less unfair to be perma uptiered in them against 10.3 with your 70s shell.

It’s not even that fast and wheeled vehicles suffer on most surfaces that isn’t just flat and paved, any snow/sand/mud/water etc your sluggish, tracked vehicles are generally more mobile.

Turms is an easy kill most of the time, Leopards are the only ones I’ve had issues with.

But they shouldn’t face another very fast, trolly tank that can easily lolpen them.

PTL/WMA have no armour and aren’t as fast. The Class 3P is gigantic, and the XM-1 Chrysler (only one at 9.0) is rare, and isn’t as good as the GM one.

You even have better APFSDS shots at 9.0. It’s just a travesty that the Type 16s are stuck with M735.


WMA301
(Type 83 APDS)


337 284 195 | 10m
335 283 194 | 100m
330 278 191 | 500m
322 272 186 | 1000m
314 265 182 | 1500m
306 258 177 | 2000m


PTL02
(DYW-PT86-100)


381 322 220 | 10m
378 319 218 | 100m
372 314 215 | 500m
364 307 210 | 1000m
356 300 206 | 1500m
347 293 201 | 2000m


Even if you drop them to 9.0, the M735 APFSD just needs to go away, it hasn’t lost anything above battle rating 8.3 and even this is generous, it a completely inadequate shot, and worse the Type 16 never fired it, because the Type 93 was already established, developed and in use by the time first Type 16 prototypes started to roll out of the assembly line.

So I don’t want to be stuck with M735 with the Type 16 (P) & (FPS) if they move them down to 9.0, and they don’t have any other option, but Type 91 HEATFS, Type 75 HESH, M735 APFSD & Type 93 APFSDS, and we know they wont give it Type 93 at 9.0, never ever, so I will take 9.7 with Type 93 any day over M735 at 9.3 or 9.0.

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Worse acceleration due to the much lower power to weight, taller, even less gun depression. These could still move up too though, to be fair.

Both are stuck with the exact same round you consider unusable at this tier. The XM-1 C is the one at 9.0, and it’s rare enough I don’t know enough about it. It’s possible it could go up, I’m not certain. The XM-1 GM is at the same tier as the Type 16, trading high quality thermals for armor that can defeat some weaker rounds. Probably still stronger, but not 9.7 worthy.

Huge, no thermals, also worse power to weight.

Kind of apples to oranges here, the firepower is completely different and much more conspicuous when firing. You also only get 4 missiles. Hard to compare it to a hard sniper like the Type 16.

No thermals. Could also do with an uptier to be honest, it’s basically a straight upgrade to the A1A1 at the same BR.

The mobility is map dependant, obviously, but on non-sandy, non-muddy maps you’ll keep pace with Leopard 1s and similar vehicles, and outpace them if you get a chance to hit your top speed. That’s pretty much the high water mark for sub 8.7 vehicles. I rarely struggle to position appropriately except on maps that are entirely unsuited to the Type 16. It’s only when you start comparing it to M1s, Leo 2s and other similar vehicles does the mobility really start to lack.

Not really the question, the question is why does Japanese vehicles always have to suffer, while others get free passes? Yes you can play with the M735, but it’s a pain, beyond point blank range, especially if they are hull down, on longer range maps, It’s also a tank destroyer, not a light tank as it is marked in this game, it has zoom optics for a reason, and the M735 is inadequate for that purpose. It’s literally the worst shot at 9.3 fired from a 105mm cannon, why, there’s another option and it’s called the Type 93, which is apparently fine at .3 BR higher at the proper Type 16, or even at 9.0 on the Type 74s. Why? It’s just nonsese, because the M735 was adjusted after those Type 16s went into the game.

EDIT: And I know XM-1 is in the same boat, which is nonsense. XM-1 should get the M774 at 9.3 and the Type 16 (FPS)/(P) should get their Type 93 APFSDS at 9.3, but I’m fine with 9.7 too, regardless of lineup issues, which there is plenty anyway.

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Turms is an easy kill most of the time, Leopards are the only ones I’ve had issues with.

They’re both not that easy to deal with, and they’re all over the place, and Russia has commander on one side and the gunner on the other and the M735 never gets both so you always die.

But they shouldn’t face another very fast, trolly tank that can easily lolpen them.

Neither should the Type 16 face 10.3, nobody wins here.

PTL/WMA have no armour and aren’t as fast.

They’re every bit as fast as the Type 16, minus a reverse I believe.
WMA gets 337mm APFSDS + Tandem ATGM and HE-VT.
PTL gets 380mm of pen APFSDS and both get gen 2 thermals I think.

The Class 3P is gigantic

Also is way better protected, large just means difficult to kill and it gets DM23 + DM33.

The Type 16 with Type 93 is all the way up at 9.7

Worse acceleration due to the much lower power to weight, taller, even less gun depression. These could still move up too though, to be fair.

0-50 is 10 seconds in the Type 16 and like 11-12 in the WMA.
They’re a slightly worse platform but being at 9.0 is already a big advantage and you get better shells and ATGM on top, if anything they’re on par.

Both are stuck with the exact same round you consider unusable at this tier.

XM is vastly superior to the Type 16 however.
28 degree vs 17 degree turret rotation.
Actual armor that protects against autocannons
28hp/t vs 22hp/t.

The Type 16 is placed in a way it has nothing but it’s firepower, which is lacking, and it’s just placed at too high of a BR because it’s either Japanese or because it has wheels despite it not beating an XM in any race.

Kind of apples to oranges here, the firepower is completely different and much more conspicuous when firing. You also only get 4 missiles. Hard to compare it to a hard sniper like the Type 16.

I mean if mobility is the argument that the Type 16 can’t be 9.0, the BMD is a lot worse, I’m shooting down planes in test drive whilst driving at 70km/h.
82mm of pen, IRIST, stabilized, tandem ATGM, thermals, laser rangefinder.
I don’t think that’s fun at 8.0 either.

And somehow that is on par with an unstabilized, no thermals, 92mm of pen Type 87 lmao, jesus christ.

I non penned the side of a BMP 2 with the type 16, until they buff it should i use heat or continue with the APFSDS?

Use APFSDS, HEAT-FS is terrible.

It wouldn’t really mattered what shell you were using, you would’ve non penned the horizontal side plates on a BMP anyways.

I do consistently better with the WMA301 & PTL02 than I do with the 9.3 Type 16s. The reason is simple, the APFSDS rounds actually do what they are supposed to do on the Chinese wheeled tank destroyers, with the Type 16 you either bounce the frontal plates of majority of MBTs you meet at 9.3 - 10.3 or you have no spalling at all with the M735. And sure there is one-shot-kills, but again, I am doing consistently better with the Chinese tanks, on the other hand I have around the same performance with the 9.7 Type 16 which gets the Type 93 APFSDS, because the shot is better and does what it is supposed to do.

Again, I don’t know why the Type 16 (any) are stuck with the M735 round from the '70s when the tank destroyer was introduced to the JGSDF in the late 2016. It makes no sense, and it wouldn’t break any kind of balance if they receive the Type 93 APFSD at 9.3, but as said, if they have to move them to 9.7 it’s acceptable to get an APFSDS shot from this century in a modern combat vehicle.

No? The Type 16 is frontally immune to I believe 30mm APDS with almost perfect frontal protection from 30mm APFSDS. So its basically immune to autocannon fire.

The rounds being so bad though on light tanks is a classic gaijin moment. American light tanks consistently have this issue above 9.0.

That wont save you from 30mms anyway, they will find a hole to sneak through and kill you, even the Type 74 isn’t immune to that with much stronger armor, or any MBT for that matter.

There is a similar vehicle in another techtree, it’s called the Centauro.
The three variants with 105mm are 105, Romor & VRCC.
105 carries DM23 the other two DM33.
105 sits at 9.3 the others at 9.7.
as stated DM33 is comparable to Type 93 APFSDS, but even DM23 is 45mm better at 10m then M735.

I’m currently spading the Type 16 in GFAB and not really liking it that much, unlike the other “Western” wheeled it only has 6 degrees down, same for the Centauro but like i said it gets better rounds.

Either it stays at its given Br and nerf to M735 is reversed or stays and gets M774, or moved to 9.7 and receives Type 93 APFSDS.

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