Give the R-73 to the MiG-29A

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
81

I really do not understand your logic behind this idea. You claim to want historical accuracy yet at the same time deny a 1980s-era MIG29 its historical R-73s while also being content with a mish-mash loadout of 1990s era R-27ERs and 1970s era R-60Ms, even though a loadout of 1980s era R-27Rs and R-73s would be a perfectly fine solution.

You also try to play the balance card and say that the MIG29 would be too overpowered with the R-73. And then you suggest that it be moved down to 12.3. The MIRAGE F1 is 12.0.

Makes me think you just don’t like the MIG-29 or something. Or you just don’t understand history and think that MIG-29s were sortieing in the 1980s with R-60Ms and R-27ERs.

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82

I agree with this. The R-60M has been balanced so hard that it sucks at 10.3 too, eating any flare. Now for the love of balance, we are talking about 12.7 MiG-29’s . R-60M’s don’t work at this br against anything that has a brain or MAWs.
The R-73 is needed. I want my Hungarian MiG-29 to have more than 2 usable air-to-air missiles.

83

They are the first ever Mig-29 variants. They should have their minimum most historical loadout to be a BR that is most advantageous for them.
They are superior at 12.3 than the ~13.3 BR you’re demanding of them.

If the Mirage F-1C is OP as you seem to claim then it should be moved up.

84

Where’d you get this from??? I think they should stay at 12.7. MAYBE move to 13.0 if the R-73 proves to be OP. which I don’t think it will.

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85

Mig-29G is not 12.7, and no it shouldn’t be made 12.7. You just want Russian bias, thanks for admitting it in front of all of us.

R-73 was already proven to be OP for 12.7 with the fact Mig-29G exists.

86

I never at any point talked about the MIG-29G. You’re really reaching now. I’m talking about the 9-13 of the USSR. And no, R-73s would not be OP at 12.7. Gate IRCCM is not hard to counter.

How do you reason this is true?

3 Likes
87

Mig-29G is 13.0 with R-73s, and it’s arguably under-BR’d there.
No Mig-29 would nor should be below 13.0 with R-73s.
As you’ve already proven, you just want Russian bias.

88

I don’t think you understand just how inferior of a missile the R-27R is compared to the sparrow. I could reliably kill MIG-29s in an F-4 Phantom, even if they had R-73s. You have to get close to use R-73s. Are Magic 2 missiles OP at 12.0? Because those operate on the same concept as the R-73.

89

R-27T is superior to the R-27ET. Same seeker, R-27T is more maneuverable due to the slightly slower speed.

Then we move Mirage F-1C up in BR rather than adding Russian bias by making Russia OP.

The fact you want to make the Mig-29 either OP or nerfed is proof enough that your posts are null and void.
Either wait for Mig-29K or play one of the Mig-29s that already have R-73s.

Anecdotes about fragging Mig-29s with F-4s don’t change facts. I fragged Mig-29s with the equivalent of the F-4J UK [FG1 specifically], that doesn’t make Mig-29 bad, it makes the pilot failing the engagement.

90

Please, keep ignoring my point about the sparrows.

If you stopped, you’d realize that you’re wrong! And we can’t have any of that now can we?

91

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92

@Sergeantpwn
I addressed your point with the sparrows here:

You used an anecdotal experience to come to a conclusion about missiles that are Skyflash and better.
R-27R is above Skyflash in equivalents, R-27R is specifically equivalent to SuperTEMP and Matra Super 530D.

R-27ER itself is a notable better missile to AIM-7F, and R-27ER is most equivalent to Sadjeel on F-14A.

And I see @RayLeight 's post is claiming that every expert in WT that stated this information before I did are all wrong without reasoning.

93

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94

Support for me it is ridiculous that the Russians have R60 For an airplane that was made specifically to carry the R73

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95

no.

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96

Hey guys, quick reminder that it is not allowed to “discourage” people to talk with somebody. Just agree to disagree and call it a day, please continue with a healthy discussion.

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99

Give a reason like the rest of us that oppose?
I want at least 1 Mig-29 in Soviet tech tree to be as low BR as possible while being balanced.

100

Let’s pull up some statistics. These statistics will be related to Delta V, which is the main component in a missile’s range.

AIM-7M: 955 M/S^2 total. 4.5 seconds of boost and 11 seconds of sustainment.

R-27"R": 692M/S^2 total. 6 seconds of boost and no sustainment.

S530D: 975M/S^2 total. 2 seconds of boost and 8 seconds of sustainment.

SuperTEMP: 798M/S^2 total. 3 seconds of boost and 4 seconds of sustainment.

As you can see, the Sparrow has over 150% the delta V of the R-27R. Additionally, this DeltaV is delivered over the longest time, which means airspeed, and thus maneuverability is also sustained for the longest time.

This is reflected in game. The R-27R is a good missile while it is burning but quickly peters off once it has stopped, which comes very soon after launch. This is the way all large Russian AAMs operate up until the R-27ER. The Sparrow maintains speed and maneuverability for a long time after it is launched, which translates into a higher probability of kill at a longer range. Thus, the sparrow is much better than the R-27R. We know that.

The SuperTEMP and S530D follow the same pattern, they have more DV overall, but also deliver that DV over a longer time, resulting in the missile remaining lethal for longer.

So, with how drastically better the sparrow is than the R-27R, the Russians deserve another good weapons system to use on the MIG, right? Enter the R-73. It is not very useful in the BVR fight, but if a player is skilled enough to make it to the merge, they suddenly become very dangerous, as the R-73 is much better than the AIM-9L.

But, because of NATO’s far superior radar missiles, the MIG-29 will not always make it to the merge. NATO has a chance to beat it, and it has a chance to beat NATO. Thus, balance AND HISTORICAL ACCURACY are both achieved.

If you are hastily typing your reply, please read through the whole post, I do not want you ignoring my points again!

2 Likes
101

Trust me, sir, I am not ignoring any of your points.
Not responding to points I’ve responded to previously, agree with, or otherwise something else while playing the game for mark of distinction 3 before my friends get offline on a different game I want to play with them on DOES NOT MEAN I am ignoring your points; it just means I’m focusing my time.

6 seconds is almost all of SuperTEMP’s burn time.
It’s most of 530D’s burn time.
And I already stated that AIM-7M is marginally better than R-27R overall, which is why I’m saying the Mig-29 moves to 12.3 after the removal of R-27ERs, as the Mig-29’s equivalent would be at 12.7 [F-16A] with AIM-7Ms.
That and a middle variant of the Mig-29, like 29K, can come in with R-73s for the Soviets and be what you [and I] want.

Otherwise with your current suggestion, Mig-29K would just be copy-paste of Mig-29 9.13 having the same exact loadouts, and 9.13 would be even more useless.
We need variety among the Mig-29 variants.

I support A Mig-29 with R-73s and no R-77s, just not 9.12 and 9.13 when there isn’t anything older to add with R-60Ms.
Mig-29A 9.12/9.13 are like F-16A Block 1/5.
And whenever F-16A Block 1/5 are added, I hope AIM-9Js are their max missile.

102

I am not talking about a MIG-29 with R-73s and no R-77s. I am talking about a 1980s MIG29 (9-13) with R-27R/T and R-73 that will be comparable in BR to the F-16ADF The MIG-29K is a modified MIG-29M which first started manufacture in 2005. That plane is out of the question here.

The F-16A-15 ADF will hold the long range advantage with its vastly (not marginally) superior AIM-7M missiles. The MIG-29 9-13 will hold the short range advantage with the R-73 which are vastly superior to the F-16’s AIM-9Ls.

That is what I want.

As for the F-16A BLK 1, it is firstly not like the MIG-29 9-12 or 9-13. The BLK-1 F-16 was introduced a full five years before the earliest MIG-29s. The Block 1 F-16A, a plane with only AIM-9Js, would probably sit around 12.0, and would be an F-5E on steroids, a rear aspect, no radar missile dogfighter that is useless outside of 5 miles.

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