Gerpard round capacity

Oh man, a lot to unpack here…
First of all, the penetrator breaking apart is intended, (hence why it is called “Frangible”) however the penetration compared to APDS not reduced by much, in fact, for the initially struck plate, it is virtually identical.
Here is a report on how FAPDS works and how the penetration of its’ fragments was calculated;

Adding the previous two pages from the Oerlikon Sub-Calibre Ammunition brochure here, so it can be referenced to more easily.

^This page of the “Oerlikon sub-calibre ammunitions” brochure focuses on FAPDS’ effect on aircraft (which feature airframes/platings of light alloy metals, such as avional) and how, despite of FAPDS being a sub-calibre AP round, it still has significant effects, even inside a lightly armoured target. (which APDS e.g. doesnt - its’ effect is much more localized)

It is also supposed to showcase how the frangible penetrator works, i.e. that it stays intact for the first few plates and then continuously breaks apart the further it goes - not how high the penetration against thick platings is.
Here you ignored that the first 2mm aluminium plate is inclined at 70°, which results in a L-O-S thickness of 5.85mm. It is also visible that the penetrator did not significantly break apart prior to ATLEAST the 300mm gap between the second and third plate.

I recall having a pentration-chart of 35mm PMD-055 saved somewhere, but I’ll have to check once I am home.

Thus, I will use 25mm APDS / FAPDS as example instead - as it should be sufficient to outline how your assumption (that FAPDS cannot have anywhere near identical penetrative performance compared to APDS) is not accurate;

Note: The following page is from the same Oerlikon brochure

Here the brochure lists a penetration of 25mm RHA at 1000m, 60° NATO for 25mm APDS-T (KBA)

Now let’s compare it to the penetration figures 25mm FAPDS-T (KBA)

And as we can see, despite of the round being FAPDS-T, the penetration is listed with an identical figure.
Note: RWM Schweiz (along with Rheinmetall Air Defence) was Oerlikon previously.

Checking Rheinmetalls website today is not going to help you much, since they no longer offer the KDA platform, as it has been replaced by the 35mm KDC and KDG cannons, which use AHEAD (KE-TF/ABM) for anti-air purposes and thus have no reason to use the outdated FAPDS shell/concept for it.

FAPDS for anti-air purposes was only(1) used on Gepard 1A2 in 1994-2016 and the concept not pursued after due to better alternatives (KE-TF), hence why the AA-purpose is no longer listed (PMD-055 itself is not listed either, nor is the KDA, so I honestly don’t know how that is an indication for anything…?).

(1) Correction: Also used on the polish “gepard” and might be used by other countries operating the Gepard 1A2 variant - though aside from poland, idk if any other nation actually uses FAPDS currently.

You can also consult this 1994 oerlikon brochure, which lists both the high penetrative capabilites aswell as the dual-purpose use against armoured aswell as airborne targets.

Brochure: Oerlikon-Contraves 35mm x 228 Ammunition for the Automatic Cannon KD Series (1994)

Additionally, there is a training-video on the NDV to Gepard 1A2, which also briefly talks about FAPDS (DM 33) and how it is to replace all currently serviced ammunition-types (Including APDS-T, DM 23)

(Timestamped)

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These (+1 additional page on the APFSDS-T rounds) were posted both on the WT-, aswell as the IAA Forums.

I could also buy the physical brochure (though in german), but I still need to ask the seller whether its’ available (and ofc hopefully for a reasonable price lmao)

Thanks - very interesting

too much maths but also based

can someone buy a gepard and some cold war tanks and test it?

The math is only relevant if you want to try to create a computer simulation of the shot :)

Fortunately they provide a lot of diagrams comparing the actual vs simulated behaviour - and the conclusion is that the simulation is good enough for damage prediction.

However I don’t think the actual “real life” penetration achieved supports a conclusion that it is equivalent to a unitary APDS.

They test the shot IRL vs a “TNO array”, which consists of 10 aluminium plates:
Plate 1: 8mm
All other plates: 2mm

There is a 300mm gap between each plate

image

image

image
(there are many other graphs showing actual testing vs simulated values - I just show this one as it is particularly relevant)

So it’s almost completely stopped penetrating after 9 plates - totalling 24mm aluminium and 2700mm air - I don’t think unitary APDS would stop there - even after 2700mm of air (9 x 300mm gaps) is taken into account!!!

BUT… apds rounds create more wear-and-tear on the barrels.

IF the Gepards barrels were not designed for sustained firing of apds ammo, they would wreck themselves.

So it could be a technical limitation as well.

well, some of the german tank guns ingame are capable only for a hundred shots before barrel change aswell. So, even if that`s the case, the mixed belts would certainly be better option, or that should not be counted at all. But i recall some guy here said that they offer those belts as option for export, so idk

Yep its so stupid funny xD

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Not really, as far as i know the apds really fucks up the gepards barrels, i doubt it would be able to handle all of these APDS rounds without serious damage

Edit: jsut saw @QTip_44 said the same thing. Yes the Barrels would at least not be accurate at all anymore

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I agree with you and yet we have the BMP-2 with 550 RPM 😅

Made to fire sabo rounds though

Not for that fast of a fire rate and
for such extensive periods of time though

Source?

“Максимально допустимый режим огня—100
выстрелов большим темпом, причем 50 выстрелов разрешается стрелять сплошной очередью, а остальные 50 выстрелов — короткими
очередями. После этого необходимо полное охлаждение ствола.”

I’m not saying it can’t fire APDS for that long, but I am saying it can’t fire anything for that long.

It’s lower rate of fire mode (200 - 300) is much more sustainable.

In-game it actually shoots for around 100 rounds before it has to cool down, which is roughly what the manual says, but I can’t see why they can’t add higher RPM for things like the Puma’s and KF41’s 30mm too.

Nice, you should make a bug report tbh

If you’re talking about the fact that the BMP-2 can’t really shoot at 550RPM for that long, I believe it’s already implemented since it currently has the cooldown mechanic after 100 rounds.
Though if you’re talking about the Puma / KF41’s guns not being able to shoot at a higher RPM, there are already threads and bug reports on it:

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Ah ok then, I don´t play much BMP at all so I forgot

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The Gepard cannot do so despite what some have claimed. The APDS on the 35mm guns are stored in a separate location alongside the weapon in limited quantity, as seen here.

image

The reason for this is fairly simple. When the 35mm fires APDS, it damages the barrel. If you were to load full belts of APDS, you would break your barrel quickly and constantly.

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Yes but there is nothing stopping it from loading APDS into the main belt xD

But ye it shreds the barrels

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