Germany Has Been Left Behind – Leopard Armor, Missing 2A8 and the Decline of German Players

Game Discussion General Discussion
61

DM 73 has like 10mm of penetration difference to DM 53, since its’ just the same dart with a different propellant, achieving 1780m/s MV.

It should (just like DM 53 A1, DM 63 & DM 63 A1) have better accuracy than DM 53 but its’ unlikely gaijin models that at all.

-Edit:

see:

And yes, the density of the rod is incorrect (by quite a lot) but good luck convincing gaijin with measurements that the actual volume of the penetrator is much lower than their 23x685mm cylinder they use.
In actuality, the average diameter is closer 21.9mm accross the entire length of the penetrator.

I did some further estimations on DM 53 at some point and came to approx. 258.22cm³ of volume, which at the RHM advertised 18.5g/cm³ density of their WHA, comes to 4.777kg, which leaves you with 0.223kg for the tracer, fins and any sort of soft-cap.

And just to show how stupid the “23x685mm at 17.5g/cm³” thing that gaijin uses currently is;
With these values, you are left with a total of just 19.486g for the fins (and the structure thats screwed on the penetrator for them), the tracer and any sort of soft-cap.

62

Let me guess, conveniently on someone elses account with a “trust me bro”

And yet every time you say that those other nations shouldn’t get it yet, real convenient.

The M1A2, worse than the SEPv3, which is the 2A7V counterpart added 2.5 years too late.

Are these a joke? These are about on par with the 2A6, at most barely better than that tank, and you want to use them as 2A8 counterparts?

63

I don’t see how worse protection, missing APS and gen 1 thermals make the 2A6 a T-90M counterpart, no I don’t think I am joking.

64

The T-90M is just a bit of a joke at 12.7 to begin with. garbage mobility, non existent gun depression and mediocre firepower just make it so much worse than the 2A6.

65

Even if it’s my second favourite MBT it’s the worst 12.7 tank, all the Abrams and Leopards are better, the Black Knight is also far superior, the Challenger 2E, TKX, Merkava Mk.4M Leclerc are still better, and I can’t talk about the Chinese ones because I have never played them

66

hm, no no, i have the premium i bought quite a long time ago…
just ignore it was to unlock the japanese exclusive event decals…

please go ahead and show me where i did that.
I said all the time sweden and germany should get it together in the form of norway.
You seriously messing up your memory there.

France gotta wait until dutch got theirs yes. but they literaly dont got it yet and can be added as soon as dutch gets the hand over pretty much.

67

ah wait memory duckery .
Type 90, dont ask me whey japanese go backwords with their tank number

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68

I could have also put 2 and 2 together if I was sharp enough lol, so all good.

69

researching Hori with type 10, would have been quite the pain in the ass with the research punishment

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70

In my opinion, the Leopard 2A8 should absolutely be added to the German ground tree. However, the 2A8 should be part of a much broader modernization of the German nation.

Germany should be kept on a balanced level with the other major nations across ground forces, aviation and helicopters.

On the ground, Germany is increasingly falling behind in terms of armor protection, accurate representation of protection packages and overall top-tier lineup depth. The Leopard 2A7V is a clear example, especially with the way its real-world protection is represented in the game.

The Leopard 2A8 would be an important and logical addition to Germany’s top-tier lineup. Germany should not be forced to rely on multiple variants of essentially the same Leopard while other nations continue receiving newer and more capable MBTs.

However, adding the 2A8 alone would not solve the entire problem.

The helicopter tree also needs attention. Compared with other major nations, Germany has fewer modern and competitive top-tier helicopter options, which leaves the German helicopter lineup behind.

The air tree has a similar issue. Germany has modern aircraft, but compared with other major nations, its top-tier aviation lineup is becoming less competitive in terms of modern capabilities, aircraft variety and overall depth. This is especially noticeable when comparing modern radar and AESA-equipped aircraft.

Therefore, the goal should not simply be:

“Give Germany the Leopard 2A8.”

The goal should be:

“Bring the entire German nation back to a balanced and competitive level.”

That means:

Add the Leopard 2A8 to Germany.
Accurately represent German MBT armor and protection packages.
Expand and modernize the German top-tier ground lineup.
Improve the German helicopter tree with modern and competitive vehicles.
Continue modernizing the German air tree with competitive aircraft and modern capabilities.
Maintain comparable lineup depth across ground, air and helicopter branches.

Germany does not need to become stronger than every other nation.

It simply needs to receive a level of attention and modernization comparable to the other major nations.

The Leopard 2A8 should come, but it should be only one part of a larger effort to bring Germany’s ground, air and helicopter forces into balance with the rest of the game.

71

You know sweden literaly got it worse, they are getting nothing.

Germany got confirmed for a new heli next patch.
Either the H145M or the Spanish tiger block 2.

And no we are not getting dutch or polish AH64s.
This is the best we getting.

Air is done, right now there is literaly nothing can be added. Thats it.

Honestly, a lot of talk of you without backing it up, you have no idea what the options are.

Boxer rct 120 or kf41 120 as light options with 120mm cannon, with more better armored mbts thats it.

they never will be competitive.

its finished

what you even talking about

Did you make an AI write this, cause its so much hot air, i cant even believe it

3 Likes
72

Asks for Germany top tier to be kept on a balanced level.

Proceeds to list a typical nation main power fantasy list.

Like I know I give a lot of nation mains crap, but props to them for at least not being as blatant with their real intentions as this.

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73

ah wait, i rememberd sth, germany can get the swiss hsvtl.

Honeslty only thing that can be strengthend is the ground line up.
Everything else germany as of right now is done

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74

@_Renzo but there is the thing again.

Either they work at germanys ground line up, or thats it for germany pretty much
2a8 still likely would be better then 2arc 3.0 or kf51s
EMBT 2024 would be same lvl as 2a8 for the most part

EMBT 2024 being frances only realy good aps option for now , that can be added right this moment
But should be added for germany as well

75

There are ways to improve the top tier Germany ground lineup without just one upping the previously best MBT every time. Germany is already set in terms of MBT quality, since the 2A7V is still easily one of the best MBTs in game, however they seriously lack realistic lineup depth though.

They don’t need a better 2A7V, they need more tanks of a similar level or slightly lower level than the 2A7V. Give them the 2A7+, 2A6EX and 2A7A1(trophy) for new MBTs and give them some new actually consistent support vehicles (like big cannon LTs).

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76

But then you stop the only ways sweden realy could get anything APS mbt related, same for france.
Or generaly frances only hope on a decently armored mbt.

Cause adding them only to 1 nation would be the wrong way as well

77

Yet that is mostly what you are proposing as well all the time, add the 2A8 to Germany and France and Sweden can wait because “muh deliveries”.

78

Goes for all embts.

79

The dutch don’t have 2a8s yet.

80

you are misquoting me again.
I said all the time sweden and germany can get it right at this moment , with sweden trough norway.
They already have an leo 2a8.

Seriously you need to stop that