German WW2 SPAAG Flaks 15-50mm and their Ammunition

But the french source states that also 115 and 117g examples were found, so there perhaps was a diversity in amount of Zink?

There’s always some variantion in the weight of shells, due to tollerance.

The japanese 30mm has an Aphe round, which in reality didnt have a fuze, it worked upon shattering, the 2 cm gun also has the Pzgr. L’Spur zerl. which has an 2,4g Pent filling, without fuze, mainly for self destruct, but in game it could also be implemented to be detonating on impact.

Furthermore, even tho i thought it didnt exist, i found this Pzsprgr. for the 20 x 138 mm ammo. Does anyone have more info? It appears to be a further drilled out Pzgr of 120g (so going by the weight, which is the same as the He grenades with 900m/s, with an somewhat small filling with a Sd and an internal inertion fuze. It would result to 33mm/10m with 20mm 120g 900m/s 3,6g filler.

And this 121g without SD (I do not understand french and asked a french for a translation)

And the mit Zerl.

An interesting fact is that the flak 341 was not created because 37mm was not enough and the caliber was changed to 50mm, but then the program was canceled, it would be interesting to see the flak 341 in a game with 50mm cannons


I had thought it was proposed to use 55 mm, namely the 5.5 cm gerät 58.

Maybe it’s navy ammunition? It almost got the same weight as the Luftwaffe 20mm AP rounds. With such large cavity the penetration would be quite low.
On the ground the 20mm was used as tank and recon vehicle armament after all, so they needed a heavier round.

The last one even says Kriegsmarine.

1 Like

I came to the same conclusion. But i wasnt able to find more. Perhaps in M.Dv. 170/1 but i dont have that.

1 Like

Otherwise, some came to the conclusion that the 2 cm Pzsprgr. L’Spur with and without, as found in the Handbuch für Flugzeugbordmunition 1936-1945 is sayed ammo. However, (which could be simply a different way of writing) its weight is (like the other ammo for the Mg 151) only 117-119g instead of 120-121g and certainly not of the full tip 148g.

Don’t think so. The 20mm AP for the MG FF/M and MG 151/20 is 80mm long, for the FlaK 30/38 it’s 85mm but the source about the 121g round you provided says it’s 87-90mm.

There’s obvously something weird going on with the second picture that shows a round with reduced cavity but still 121g.

Indeed. So i and some others keep looking.

It would be very nice to see the APCR/HVAP ammo for the Ostwinds ingame. most other nations have AP rounds with 65+mm Pen meanwhile the ostwinds can pen almost nothing at its BR.


Well, it’s actually:

H.5 or RDX (~1.82g/cm³) phlegmatized with 5% paraffin wax (~0.9g/cm³) by weight has a density of around 1.73g/cm³.
Zinc has a density of 7.13/cm³ and 70:30 mix with H.5 based on volume results in a combined density of 3,35g/cm³.
We have 90g of filler, meaning that the total amount of H.5 in the mixture is 32.5g H. 5.
→ 0.7 * ((90g * 1,73g/cm³) / 3.35g/cm³)

I meassured the cavity of the Brandsprenggranate o. L. and noticed that while it’s longer, it’s also thinner. Resulting in a cavity that would hold around ~63% more than the regular shell with tracer, meaning around 44-45g of Np. 10, which has roughly half the density of that H. 5 Zinc mix, that would have a weight of 90g. So my calculation and assumption it’s a 70:30 mix by volume, seems correct.

However a 70:30 mix by volume is almost identical to a mix of 30:70 by weight.
So that could also be correct, since meassuring the volume of the cavity doesn’t lead to 100% accurate results. Then it would be simply 27g of RDX.

However the destructive power would be a lot higher.
I recently looked a bit into the whole aluminizing explosive business and adding metal powder to explosive result in them releasing a lot of heat during oxididation, increasing energy relase and pressure.

Zinc releases more energy than aluminum but is also much heavier.
If we replace the zinc with aluminum in the mixture, we would instead get ~24g of aluminum, for around a near 50:50 RDX Aluminum mixture.
In comparison, Hexal is a 60:40 RDX Aluminum mixture.
But because it’s zinc, it’s going to relaese even more energy.

The downside is reduced fragment velocity but for enhanced blast and incendiary effect.

1 Like

Great article and 6 likes while a goon spouting about Russian bias gets 50.Typical

Im not shure to add it, but the 3,7 cm Sockel Flak L/14,5
It was also along the 7,7 cm Flak 16 L/35 and other guns put on the Krupp Daimler KD-1
and after WW1 continued to be used by the netherland army as war reperations.

Pictures: (Click to show)


Ammo used where 4 different rounds, 2x He rounds and 2x SAP-T
These include the: (Click on the names to show each)

3,7 cm Gr. L/2,5


3,7 cm Sprgr. L/2,5 (Kz)


3,7 cm L'Spur.-Gr. L/2,5


3,7 cm L'Spur.-Gr. L/2,5 (Stahl)


(The first SAP-T round is cast iron, the 2nd steel with an even greater tracer filling)

While with a cool history to the gun, beeing kept as small and light as possible (only L/14,5 barrle and overall weight of 215 kg deployed, for comparisson the 4 cm Bofors is 1,981 kg and the 3,7 cm Flak 37 1,550 kg) with a fire rate of 120 rpm and 10 round magazins.
Tho also only a velocity of 355m/s for the 0,47kg he and 360m/s for the SapI-T of 0,465kg, so by gaijins calculator, the penetration of the Steel Tracer SAP-T round would be a mere 14mm and by that pretty much useless.

That’s more like an automatic grenade launcher 😂

Refurbished and added more.

What’s the point?

You even said:

Why add trainings ammunition to the list and make up penetration data, that doesn’t make any sense?
15mm AP-T penetrates 33mm but the trainings round with hollow dummy fuze 30.5m?

It’s a trainings round for gun testing purposese.

German documents rated the British Hispano Practice round with 15mm penetration, so in which world would a 15mm trainings round have 30mm?

SAPHE? You know that the Hispano SAPI had an actual steel metal cap instead of a dummy fuze, right? And German PETN is phlegmatized so it doesn’t accidently explode when someone drops it or leaves it in the sun. There’s just no way the shell would even detonate unless the tracer ignites the black-powder.

It’s the same with the 3,7cm Mine-AP round, which has barely 20mm of steel behind the nose.
The 20mm MG 151 AP rounds only penetrated 10mm at 30°, so you can expect maybe 20mm for such shell.
I don’t know how Gaijin comes up with SAPHE penetration data but it’s clear that the penetration is waaaay lower than actual AP rounds.

25mm SAP in-game penetrates merely 24mm compared to the 57mm of 25mm AP-T, even though based on kinetic energy they would have roughly the same potential.

Yeah, but i also dont know how to calculate that, so i just put that there. But fine, i edited.

1 Like

A quick test with Japanese short and long 120mm SAPHE shows its roughly like a solid shot APC shell with penetration cut in half.

For the 25mm SAPHEI it appears to more like 0.42x compared to solid AP.

The British 30mm SAPI just has APHE performance.

For US 37mm SAPHEI it’s again roughly solid shot APC with half the penetration.


The US 37mm SAPHEI is similiar to the German Mine-AP shell, but has a thicker steel body, meaning it would outperform it in penetration.
But for gameplay purposes you could say it’s roughly the same with not more than 32mm penetration.
Since they are roughly equal in lenght but the German one has a thinner steel body, I kind of doubt the weight of 710g is correct.

It’s shown using the same 185g propellant charge as the APHE round with the entire shell weighing 1560g compared to the 1570g of the APHE round.
So it’s unlikely that the shell weighs more than the 685g as the APHE round, especially since the velocity is shown with 780m/s compared to the APHE shell with 770m/s.