Great article and 6 likes while a goon spouting about Russian bias gets 50.Typical
Im not shure to add it, but the 3,7 cm Sockel Flak L/14,5
It was also along the 7,7 cm Flak 16 L/35 and other guns put on the Krupp Daimler KD-1
and after WW1 continued to be used by the netherland army as war reperations.
Pictures: (Click to show)
Ammo used where 4 different rounds, 2x He rounds and 2x SAP-T
These include the: (Click on the names to show each)
3,7 cm Gr. L/2,5
3,7 cm Sprgr. L/2,5 (Kz)
3,7 cm L'Spur.-Gr. L/2,5
3,7 cm L'Spur.-Gr. L/2,5 (Stahl)
(The first SAP-T round is cast iron, the 2nd steel with an even greater tracer filling)
While with a cool history to the gun, beeing kept as small and light as possible (only L/14,5 barrle and overall weight of 215 kg deployed, for comparisson the 4 cm Bofors is 1,981 kg and the 3,7 cm Flak 37 1,550 kg) with a fire rate of 120 rpm and 10 round magazins.
Tho also only a velocity of 355m/s for the 0,47kg he and 360m/s for the SapI-T of 0,465kg, so by gaijins calculator, the penetration of the Steel Tracer SAP-T round would be a mere 14mm and by that pretty much useless.
That’s more like an automatic grenade launcher 😂
Refurbished and added more.
What’s the point?
You even said:
Why add trainings ammunition to the list and make up penetration data, that doesn’t make any sense?
15mm AP-T penetrates 33mm but the trainings round with hollow dummy fuze 30.5m?
It’s a trainings round for gun testing purposese.
German documents rated the British Hispano Practice round with 15mm penetration, so in which world would a 15mm trainings round have 30mm?
SAPHE? You know that the Hispano SAPI had an actual steel metal cap instead of a dummy fuze, right? And German PETN is phlegmatized so it doesn’t accidently explode when someone drops it or leaves it in the sun. There’s just no way the shell would even detonate unless the tracer ignites the black-powder.
It’s the same with the 3,7cm Mine-AP round, which has barely 20mm of steel behind the nose.
The 20mm MG 151 AP rounds only penetrated 10mm at 30°, so you can expect maybe 20mm for such shell.
I don’t know how Gaijin comes up with SAPHE penetration data but it’s clear that the penetration is waaaay lower than actual AP rounds.
25mm SAP in-game penetrates merely 24mm compared to the 57mm of 25mm AP-T, even though based on kinetic energy they would have roughly the same potential.
Yeah, but i also dont know how to calculate that, so i just put that there. But fine, i edited.
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A quick test with Japanese short and long 120mm SAPHE shows its roughly like a solid shot APC shell with penetration cut in half.
For the 25mm SAPHEI it appears to more like 0.42x compared to solid AP.
The British 30mm SAPI just has APHE performance.
For US 37mm SAPHEI it’s again roughly solid shot APC with half the penetration.
The US 37mm SAPHEI is similiar to the German Mine-AP shell, but has a thicker steel body, meaning it would outperform it in penetration.
But for gameplay purposes you could say it’s roughly the same with not more than 32mm penetration.
Since they are roughly equal in lenght but the German one has a thinner steel body, I kind of doubt the weight of 710g is correct.
It’s shown using the same 185g propellant charge as the APHE round with the entire shell weighing 1560g compared to the 1570g of the APHE round.
So it’s unlikely that the shell weighs more than the 685g as the APHE round, especially since the velocity is shown with 780m/s compared to the APHE shell with 770m/s.
@KillaKiwi
I actually found mention of it.
In Mauser Ziel 2/24 - A visit to Mauser Werke AG
In which the testing of the 104g Minengeschoss X is multiple times mentioned. Aparently there were problems with it getting stuck in the barrle ir it exploding in the barrle (Rohrkrepierer)
It would be 104g up to 25g HA 41 and 950m/s.
So any idea for what weapon system it was first intended?
Probably makes more sense for the 2cm FlaK 38 considering it’s more powerfull.
On the MG 151/20 it reduces the already rather low velocity by quite a lot, being a heavier Mineshell that also uses less propellant because of the longer shell.
Sounds like it was never actually put into service. The 2cm Brandgranate was probably good enough anyway.
I can only imagine the Mineshell X to be used for Schräge Musik, where the low velocity and different trajectory wouldn’t make much difference.
For what it was first intended, idk, how far the development of it reached, also idk. I have only seen 2 mentions with time date 1944 of it. But i didnt look throught the whole Book, as its huge and i dont have it, i only looked at a preview.
I suppose the Mx is also for the Mg 213C, which has higher velocity, is against bombers and uses Flak ammo but also Minengeschosse as i habe read.
Damn i thought this won’t be a problem since the mg 151/20 fires 20×82mm shells and the Flak 38 fires 20×138mmB shells so both shells are the same diameter and only difference is the length
Well, i found a 2nd italian source mentioning a Mx tracer round. And i dont know if they fixed it in the end.
Welp thanks for the info at least it’s nice to know that they used more powerful shells on the Flak 38 at some point
Well and on the Mg 151/20.
Have you found anything else on this shell? Its available on some in-game german boats but finding a reference to it IRL seems quite rare.
Unfortunately not, except, that it may be the same APCBC shell, which was developed for the 3,7 cm Pak L/65 and L/70, however kept empty, similar which was done with 20mm Ammo for the Flaks, as the filler wasnt really needed when shooting at ships. Tho tbh i really dont know more, info is very sparse. Unfortunately i havent even found a copy of the Marine Manual of the 2 and 3,7 cm Flaks (And no i dont mean the Madsen Flak).
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Damn, that sucks. Best of luck in the future.
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I now added the 3,7 cm Flak 341 as intended for the Flakpanzer 341 of which 4 were build (2 for tests 2 for reference) HOWEVER there is a big void on the ammo, i suspect its adapted navy ammo of the C/30, conciddering that the Pzgr.18 long has reached its shattergap, and the L/4,1 rounds were developed for the same-ish velocity of 1000 m/s compared to the 1040m/s of the Flak 341.
The only know stats to me are 725g, 65g unknown filler (but most likely Np 10 or H.5 AlGrieß) and 1040m/s.
While the Brsprgr. L’Spur L/4,1 of the C/30 is 730g, 30g Np.10 or H.5 AlGrieß and 1000m/s. The overall length is even the same with 152mm.
So ANY info regarding the ammo is welcome.
I do know of a 2nd bigger M-Gr. for the navy with some 130g Filler, any info and possible use here would also be welcome, the Flak 341 was to be shared between Heer and Kriegsmarine.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/AmTFRaANjmcy
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No, sorry