German WW2 Plane Armarment 7,92 - 88 mm and their Ammunition

Machinery of War Discussion Aircraft
21

Didn’t even know late model is exists for Mk 108.

Which aircraft was it mounted on?

22

Beyond some test aircraft it did not see service.

23

Mostly they used it for Me 262s or Fw 190Ds?

24

Most likely also mounted on Bf 110s, they often used that for testing, like the Mg 213C.

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25

A few notes on the 7.9mm ammunition:

  • There was no “smk l’spur -v” only “smk l’spur 100/600 -v”. The Luftwaffe had already switched from “smk l’spur” to “smk l’spur 100/600” prior. (Tracer is visible after ~100m and burns up to ~600m range.)
  • The “-v” ammunition was introduced in the 2nd half of 1942, therefore the “ordinary” should still be relevant for early aircraft.
  • At the beginning of WW2, there was also an incendiary round in use. Production ceased 1940. “7,9mm Pr” or sometimes S-Pr. It was more or less, the same round from WW1. (More Info can be found in Waffen Revue No. 5)
  • Even though the “-v” ammunition could be used in the MG 15 and MG 81, it was neither recommended in 03/1943 or 06.1944 for their belts. It was only recommended for “Jäger” (compare L.Dv. 4000-10). It also says: “z. Zt. nur für starre Fliegerbordwaffen MG. 17” (At this time only for fixed mounted aircraft mg 17)
  • Another missing round is the “7,9mm PmK n.A.”. It seems that this one has no tin-sealed opening and also has phosphorus in the tip above the penetrator.

Other missing 7.9mm cartridges:

  • 7,9 mm s.S. (fmj ball)
  • 7,9 mm S.m.E. (ball with iron penetrator) replaced “s.S.” and was the standard bullet in slightly different variants (~1940)
  • 7,9 mm “S.m.E. L’spur 100/600” (tracer with iron penetrator) replaced the “S.m.K. L’spur 100/600” for the Luftwaffe. (~mid 1944)
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26

Yeah but from what I can tell it also has less in the middle.
So overall still the same amount.

27

That’s true, but the old round was already burning up parts of their filling flying towards the target, leaving a rotating smoke tracer. The “n.A.” should ignite only on impact.

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28

Well, i added the P.m.K. n.A., tho idk on the filling, only 1 picture. Added the normal velocitys in the Spoilers.
Didnt add the Ball nor Sap ammo, i think its a bit redundant here. (Or rather maybe i cant be bothered, but if you write it in a comment, i might C&P it in.)

29

Added new info for 5,5 cm Mk 114/Gerät 58

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30

How to prove it can be used on BK3.7?

31

Well, the BK 3.7 is a 3.7cm Flak 37.
So the ammunition is interchangeable.

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32

There is a ammo sheet for the Bk 43 that lists it as well as there are books writing about its usage.

33

Technically the Flak 18, tho all 18 36 and 37 are identical, with exception to the mounting.

34

Good to know. I think there was also the BK 43 based on the FlaK 43, right?

35

Yes.

36

Sounds good, has anyone submitted this suggestion to Gaijin?

37

As a matter of fact, yesterday I saw someone created a bug report.

But I think that Ghostmaxi also did some general report on the BK 3.7 before.

38

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/1CrhjCjF3KiU

I found someone created this report yesterday, but I am not sure if Gaijin really care

39

I doubt it will go through, as its simply copied over from here. See the velocity 770/820, which i wrote, but am not 100% shure about. I only saw some US source, and based on a title of a german document about higher velocity, but not really yet co firmed, as i only have the title not the document in the BArchiv.

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40

Actually even that is wrong, i forgot to fix it here. I know of german source 770m/s, but from books 790 and 800m/s, by Technical and Tactical trends no.39
In general, the german number is for worn barrel, does anyone know more sources with the 790 or 800m/s figgure?

Overall i found now multiple books and in summary:
680-685g Pzgr.18 800m/s (or also 770m/s reduced charge or worn barrel)
700g Pzgr. 790m/s (Navy) (currently in game 815m/s)
710g M-Pzgr. 783m/s

(i think the 815 m/s should only be for the 37x250mmR and L/69 guns, but not 37x265mmB L/57 guns)

Regarding the HE ammo 820 and 835 m/s, both by some books as well as in the description of RH 8/3757K K 1: Rohrerhöhung (?) als Funktion der Senkzeit (t) des Geschützrohres (vorläufige Werte für V = 835 m/s)