German 9.7-10.0 suffering after the update

Hi Guy, What are your thoughts about German 9.7-10.0 GRB line up after the update? Can tanks from 9.3 - 9.7 like:

Leo 2k - 9.7 without thermals

T-72M1- 9.3 no thermals

Begleit, - 9.3 Low ammo count with low pen to other tanks within its BR

Radkam, - 9.7 No thermals

Ozelot, - 9.7 FiM - 92K has low range VS most of the cast are a10 and SU25k with longer range.

Gepard 1A2 9.7 - FiM - 92K has low range VS most of the cast are a10 and SU25k with longer range and No Thermals.

and special mention the Mig-23BN without getting any flares, and even no AAM like other 9.7-10 CAS planes compare to SU-25k and A10 that are just seating at 10.0 and has many arsenal for a GRB.

So can these tanks and plane can perform at 10.0 with the puma or can still perform on 9.3 - 97 BR without the puma? And does PUMA deserved to get up tier to 10.0 without even getting any buff? You can share your thought here. Thank you.


Is this a troll post? The AA’s are struggling right now because of the trouble they have with missile locking, but all the other tanks you have listed here are incredibly powerful. The Mig-23BN is an excellent cas vehicle that does not need flares to do its job in ground RB. It is a crime the Bagel panzer didnt go up with the most recent changes, and all the vehicles you have listed have a very strong lineup. The PUMA could go up another br step, as could the bagel panzer, and they would perform just fine.


I actually find german 10.0 lineup to be insanely strong. PUMA is a beast, leopard gets it done, love bagel, mig23 not bad. Had best rounds for summer event with this lineup

Isn’t the gepard 1a2 bugged right now? Like, it can’t actually use the better missile?

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that is right, proxy stingers dont work

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Couldn’t agree more. Leo 2A4 has unusable thermals while every russki or us tank has way better thermals, better rounds, better survivability.
Leo’s only have better mobility basically.

PUMA is literal garbage compared to 2S38.

AA sucks compared to russki and US, no real point to mention why as a short glance at the stats shows why.

CAS doesnt even exist. The A-10 is literally better in every way at doing it than any german plane. Same goes for the Su-25k.

Overall it’s obvious that gaijin doesnt like germany very much.


The M1 Abrams has gen 1 thermals so does the Leo2A4 the M1 has a worse shell by quite a bit

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9.3 was incredibly strong. The best part of the line-up was the Ozelot being a guaranteed kill or two bringing you back into the game if you lost your first 2 or 3 tanks and having such a low spawn cost you would almost always get a chance to fly some stingers.

Now, for some reason, the Ozelot is 9.7 alongside the FAR more capable Gepard 1A2 (does not even compare?). Every time I go into 9.3 games now, I get absolutely stomped by CAS… Usually the reason I have to fall back into AA.

I always thought this is a fair trade. CAS pretty much guarantee a kill or two + more with skill. Which forces players to fall back on cheaper spawn AA which can guarantee a kill or two. This is balanced. With out this trade off, and nothing keeping CAS in check, games turn into 5 min stomping sessions. Now planes are going un-checked. Am I supposed to take out super sonic Jets with a base Gepard from 8.3? at 9.3?

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if they can see you… but usually they get targeted from 3km away and from bushed up russian mains.

its a barely good ‘ifv’ the tow got nerfed and the cannon fire rate dosent help as its basically unable to counter spaced armoured ifvs. the puma is even worse off with no atgm and a joke of a survivability. darts go right thru and the top shell the pcm whatever cant even go thru a freccias UFP without encountering a black hole

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i dont know what you guys are talking about the only tanks that have better than gen 1 thermals at this br range are on support vehicles like ifv and spaa. Germany is very dominate at this br range and you go up .3 to 10.3 and you have one of the most meta tanks rn the 2a4

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this is nonsense. if you are getting shot from 3KM away, you are playing in the wrong positions. At this BR most vehicles do not have enough armour to stop many of the common rounds used, so every vehicle can be killed if looked at.

it is a perfect light tank, it has great mobility, the marder chassis will often bounce darts that it probably shouldnt, you have a stabiliser, thermals, laser rangefinder, the ap in the cannon can penetrate the sides of every vehicle and will often one ot two shot kill, you get Prox He rounds that you can use to deal with Helis and planes, and despite the missile changes, the I-tows are still perfectly viable for killing tanks at range if you are front on. But again, if you are constantly facing the front of every vehicle you see, your positioning is poor and you need to play it more conservatively, it is not an mbt so should not be played as one, though in practice a good player who knows weakspots can stil kill mbt’s from the front or side after disabling the gun.

well sorry if i waited for 3 minutes and saw no one and advanced with the team to the capture point only to be reminded of my cars extended warranty by a russian tungsten projectile travelling at mach 2…
its not positions always. the russian lineups allow them to flank and spank. do it all. they basically have amazing performance no matter what angle they engage at.

well not the russian T-72 or T-80.

again, the ricochet angles are very limited what with the whole 11mm of armour that it has at the front.

the thermals are a joke and nothing else is uncommon at the BR

it takes a minimum of 2 seconds to 5 seconds to engage a T-72 at normal engagement ranges with a TOW atgm in which time he can easily move and fire and his round will reach before the missile. i dont argue against the efficiency of the TOW but reaction times are not in its favour.

as for front aspect, ive been getting maps like that 3 cap dam map or those open terrain ones where any flanking is a death sentence for like the past 70 matches, so it may be a bad sample but its not very convincing for a good performing vehicle.

The russians can do nothing you can’t do, and are in fact much more limited. The russian tanks have vary trademark weaknesses, their lack of gun depression means there are many positions they simply cannot use, and their poor reverse speed means that when they push, they cannot retreat out of the position they moved into.If you have any sort of decent crews, you will consistently out reload any russian tanks, their 7.1 second autoloader may seem nice at the start, but with good crews you can get the reload on both the L7 and L44 guns down to sub 7 seconds, giving you the advantage if the reload comes into play.They also have worse AA than you do, the strela suffers with the same locking issues as the gepard with the missiles, and the gepard has its guns to use if it needs to against planes or tanks if it needs to defend itself. 9.3 russian lineups also only have one light tank unless you want to bring the BMP-3 up to it, the sprut, the sprut suffers the same weaknesses of all the russian tanks with the same autoloader, same poor depression and lack of thermals, it is outclassed by all of the german light tanks at the BR.

This is defintely not true, russian MBT’s are best nose on, if you are around their side or rear at all their survivability is pitiful. the 3 crew means you can one shot them consistently if you do not aim too low, and even if you do aim too low you will often ammo rack the autoloader, especially with the T-64’s. You cannot simply run straight at them because that is where they are strongest, you must use your superior mobility, te either flank or get a position where you can get a free shot onto them, or simply shoot first, and hit their weakspots. The weakspots are the same on all the russian MBT’s and will often one shot if you choose the right one for the situation. If the tank is angled slightly upwards, and you can see the lower plate, you should go for it, and if the tank is on relatively flat ground, go for the drivers port or breech, shots to the drivers port will most commonly one shot, so this is where i would advise aiming, though if you are not confident you can just shoot for the breech, and then finish him while cannot fire back, and cannot reverse quickly enough to get away.

The T-80 is 10.3, and is not really in the scope of this thread, your 10.3’s are just as, if not more capable than it. Your main problems for penetrating are the T-72B’s at 9.7 and 10.0, the T-64B at 9.7 and the T-72AV Turms at 10.0. The Turms is the only one of these vehicles to get thermals, and the vehicles the germans have at 10.0, the Leopard 2AV and the PT-16/T14, are very capable of dealing with the turms in the same way as every other russian MBT. To be clear, i do belive the turms and Derivatsiya could go up in BR, but they are far from unkillable like the Obj-279. For the rest of the russian tanks that have semi-effective armour, this armour only protects the front, and they still have all the same weakspots, are still limited in the positions they can play and will still struggle to get out of bad positions or overcommits.

and yet, it still manages to bounce darts on a semi-consistent basis, on all the vehicles using the marder chassis, both marder A’s, the DF-105 and the bagel panzer.

None of the russian 9.3 or 9.7 vehicles have thermals. Apart from the Krisanthema, but that thing doesnt even bear mentioning because of how useless it is. They are Gen1 thermals, which is standard for 9.3, and a luxury the russian tanks cannot afford. This plays into again, the positioning aspect, you have a much easier time spotting russian tanks than they do you, and so you can either position yourself and wait for them because you can know the most likely route they will take further into the map, or you can go to a position that will allow you to flank them.

This is true, but again you should avoid head on-ing russian tanks in close quarters, this is good advice for any tanks really not just the bagel panzer, but if you do you are choosing the place where the russian mbt’s are the strongest to engage them. If you can get around the side of the vehicle in a town or other urban setting, you can quickly and easily kill him, and if he either missies his first shot head on, or just damages you not disabling your gun, you can just shoot his barrel before he reloads and then take your time with the Tow. If you are in a more open setting, then atgms are more effective against russian MBT’s than any other nations MBT’s except maybe china, because of the poor reverse speed, and if they do not notice it instantly, will often not be able to start reversing in time to cover themselves, and, you have thermals that they dont to help in spotting them.

Some maps are not good for certian vehicles, the urban maps are often not good for light tanks, and the hillier maps are not so good for tanks with poor depression. For 38th parallel, it is a bad map in my opinon because you can shoot from the exit of one spawn, to the exit of the opposite teams spawns, and the map often devolves into people sitting just on the exit of their spawn shooting st people on the other side doing the same thing. For that map my advice would be to get down a little further into the map, and watch the limited routes the enemy has to the caps, there are plenty of rocks and defilades you can sit behind, and wait for tanks to pass you, turning your engine off while doing this can also help to stop people hearing you if they come close.

They still havent fixed 9.7 SPAA Gepard 1A2 stinger bug, it wont equip FIM-92K ingame : // Issues

& Gepard 1A2 has also missing ammo ingame like air burst.

Gepard 1A2 never had the ability to programm air burst it is missing the necesary programming coil for it, it can theoreticaly shoot AHEAD but it would only work on impact, what the Gepard1A2 is missing is its actual main armament the FAPDS

So why was the Ozelot moved to 9.7? 10G pull missiles that’s flare resistant and no guns to defend itself. Unless you are blind and flying a bus, anyone can dodge them
Did they move it up in preparation for UV and datalink so we can lock air targets with the IRST and fire off the stingers that way?

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nah just because most stuff got raised up by 0.3br

Funfact: You cant use the K only the E is playable

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Then why not give ground 12.0 finally? we already have that for planes for months

because that originaly is supposed for tier 8, they propably dont like raising the br to it yet without tier 8 release