General playtest of air-to-air missiles with ARH Seekers (FOX-3)

I just wanted to contribute by saying I love this. All of this. The ARH feels balanced considering what it is. I am excited to see how this plays out in the live server, I have been having a blast.

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Sure it can come with JATM* and Meteor missiles.

yes the Derby (R-Darter) can use BOL, because it use the sidewinder pylon you can find a lot of photos.

I don’t see how this is wrong currently,… i have no problem decoying radar missiles when they’re fired from far enough range to permit some maneuvers.

as basher said, get rid of multipath for modern missiles (ARH)

and if you don’t know what multipath is : basically the radar reflection of the target being reflected to the ground.

your radar will send a signal, and that signal will bounce back from the target in all direction, including towards the ground. The radar return sent to the ground will bounce back one more time on said ground, meaning you now have 2 return signal instead of 1 (return signal takes multiple paths, therefore the name).

SARH therefore gets confused and think the target is lower than where it really is, and instead of going to the target, the missile slams into the ground. It only works at very low altitude since the higher the target, the longer the signal bouncing off the target to the ground will have to travel, making it weaker.

Thing is, modern ARH seekers are made to ignore it, so tree hugging should realistically not work anymore (heck some SARH can mitigate the effect to some extent)

picture is worth a 1000 words :


I made a poll for it if anyone is interested

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Nah i need a photo of it on the common launcher rail

wdym common launcher rail

Lofting is well studied and depending on model and battery life can yield up to 50% increase in range in these types of scenarios.

The standard R-77-1 was modified with more aerodynamic grid fins and this improved transonic region… but the missile is also longer and more aerodynamic at the front and rear. This change will improve performance at all speeds.

We lack solid data for either missile at the moment. What we know is that it is highly likely they produced a newer or more efficient propellant / grain pattern for the R-77-1 since the original R-77 is almost 30 years old at this point and 20 years older than the R-77-1 technically. It wouldn’t make sense to continue producing an older less efficient propellant when they’ve been developing cheaper and better alternatives for other ordnance this entire time.

Additionally, in very specific scenarios and provided guidance time is increased… the AIM-120 can in theory do 200km but it’s highly inefficient to loft a missile straight up and let it coast down on a target for a longer period of time. This type of lofting doesn’t benefit fighters. The primary reason for lofting is not to enhance the maximum range but rather improve the time to target. The R-77 shouldn’t loft and should have similar time to target, it is underperforming (and so is the AIM-120).

I think they should nerf multipathing. Not remove it completely but at least slash the safe altitude by half. Flying low should be a sketchy last resort, not make you invulnerable


Apparently, the ARH missiles have nothing to do with the will of the players.
They target completely at random.

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Not true,… but they target what they have in their cone, unless you guide them correctly.

You also have to understand about how the Fox-3 radar cone works.

You can also give us the view of sensors, and you’ll understand more things, than simply ranting.


Guiding correctly?
I use TWS for guidance, the ARH’s own radar does the terminal guidance, so there is no way for me to interfere.

The problem is that the missile seeker is switching at high speed between the two targets that are getting the radar beam reflections.
It doesn’t matter that when the missile seeker is active, it has two targets and it’s catching an unintended target.
But switching at high speed means that the two targets are not distinguishable.
Currently, SARH missiles have an angle gate rate setting to deal with this problem, but ARH missiles do not, which is why this is happening.

You used TWS in soft lock, and that’s all in the name:

Soft locking gives a general direction for the missile to be guided to. Yet, the Fox-3 missile is also equipped with it’s own radar, and thus, the missile itself searched for the target within the general direction you gave it.

→ that’s why the change of target is largely possible.

If you were locking in STT/CW, you would have the Fox-3 missile having complete illumination of where he should be going, therefore limiting that cone of the Fox-3 missile up to the moment where the radar of The missile would relay your own illumination with it’s own.

Thats exactly what you didn’t understood in the use of TWS.

Go watch your replay with the new mode of Replay, shwoing the sensors, you’ll be able to understand MUCH MORE.

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The ARH is different from the SARH missile.
Even if there is a difference in information stability between STT lock and soft lock with TWS, it does not matter because guidance is done by datalink and finally the radar of the main unit is activated to guide.
Please check the video

And as I said in my previous post, that’s not the crux of the matter.

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Well anyway,… you fire from that close(range in which the missile is automatically selecting target in front of him,…), the model is wiggling hard and you to make me believe that the lock is 100% obtainned normally,…

First of all Su-57 aren’t part of game, that’s a mod, and mods that can be the reason why it doesn’t work in 1st place.

And AGAIN,… i asked you for SENSOR VIEW,…

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Oh, I didn’t think you meant that you wanted me to post the sensor view video here based on your first reply.
I’m not good at English, so I apologize if I meant no offense.

that’s a bug that isn’t restricted to ARH as far as i’m aware. Some IR or SARH missiles tend to do that as well. It is realistic to some extent since a radar won’t be able to identify precise targets if they fly close to each other, it will just see a “blob”.

It’s quite overexaggerated in game though as far as my understanding of radar and ir seeker goes