General Japanese Naval Forces Discussion HQ

Except that even on 10km- Yama could be barely penned by Richelieu best shells and other 8.3 ships(except Roma)

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Actually Yamato fear more long ranged shots and only with best guns like Iowa, Soyz, Roma or Yamato itself. And way less fragile than 8.3 ships, when half of ammo unloaded(after all bugfixes). So you basically want it to be stronger than Iowa and Soyz, while they have better design for current game reality.

Spoiler

Even your sweetspot actually show that it could not be penned that way if you shoot it.

So in the end 7.7-8.3 are victims here, not the Yamato.


For first time Japanese ship fires a tomahawk

JS Chokai

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So its no problem at all that sojuz and iowa are basically invincible at all ranges above 5 km to most ships below 8.0 but yamato just gets oneshot on half the maps by most 7.7 ships from 10 km or less. i see. which ships do you play again?

Which is funny, cause i died from exactly this shot. and its not exactly a sweetspot if that whole area above the main armor belt has around these armor values and the yamato blows up by every light cruiser round hitting there once the armor behind is destroyed (not sure if thats a thing but thats the only way i can think of how tf that happens)

But yeah, probably youre right, theres absolutely no problems with yamato, like 1/3rd the effectiveness of all other nation’s 8.7 ships in RB, AA simply not working at all sometimes and what i just found: It reliably sinks to 3 Spitfires with full dumb rocket RP-3 loadoat thats 3 runs with 8 times 6.35 kg SAP-HE rockets with 41 mm flat pen. Salvo 8 of them each at one section from above into the deck armor and youll have 3 black sections. Surely that sounds about right. What did it take again to sink the Yamato? 3 spitfires…yeah ok. “Almost” realistic damage model

AB


RB

barely 1/2 times to Soyz and even less to iowa.

That’s simply not true.

You could look it’s not a secret

btw. you have 1/4,54 kd on Yama You just want 1/10?

ps. @ParryACO-psn have outstanding 1/16 on Musashi

I’m gonna be real; most of those are bots.

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Hard times, hard measures

I have been instantly killed by an Iowa in that exact spot at near parallel shell angle at about 12km.

I can 100% say that shot simulation is a lie.

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Does anyone have any idea why the compartments die that quickly reliably. I was flying a spitfire with dumb rockets in a custom match that had ai bots of ships, like the yamato (shoutout CB_Madams Mod). you can carry 8 RP-3s on the Mk24 spit that according to their statcard have a sap-he warhead with 6.8 kg tnt each and 41 mm pen. If you salvo fire these (try not to hit superstructures especially not the turrets) from above onto the deck armor you can reliably black out one compartment per strafe.

Ofc then u need to wait to reload or have two more spits. Do that 3 times at different compartments and the yamato sinks. From 54.5 kg tnt onto each compartment. How the eff does that get through “quality control” and not a single person at gaijin seems to pick up on something like that is beyond me.

And that was replicable. Easily doable in 4 or even 3 runs. It even worked on one other ship cant remember which but did nothing to a Bismarck for example. Like nothing, not even starting to damage the compartments in multiple runs. Does anyone want to bug report that cuz i really dont have the will after all that stuff thats already reported and not fixed for a year now to do even more work for gaijin to get their stuff together…Just for it to be labelled as “working as intended” and “not a bug” and some anonymous dude asking me for my tax number and a 4k video of 5 incidents of that happening in a live match

It might be because if you simulate the shot it gets eaten by another armored plate before reaching the ammo or the “ammo elevator”. Yet thats what it says as possible damage: “ammo elevator”. So i think that somehow, possibly after those armored plates get hit, they disappear or get “destroyed” and the next round can reach all the way. At that point there really might be less than 50 mm armor left. Right above the giant magazines.

Id like to put a thumbs up emote for awesome modelling but dont know how.

Bismarck easily penneble


Gneisinau not so easy

To damage compartment you need to penetrate it, if you hit and there was armor that you could not pen, compartment will not be damage. But some of the ships have compartments modeled without upper deck so they survive better.

So you could kill Soyz just spamming 200mm- HE on top part of the Ship just cause it have only 25mm of armor there.


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Ah that “makes sense” since the upper deck armor of the yamato is 50 and 35 mm. But how and why should that damage the compartments which is a dead switch to keeping the ship afloat as its modelled atm. How does punching through this outermost layer of the ships armor like 15 m above the waterline influence the ability to stay afloat of such a giant battleship. And why should 8 of these rockets completely destroy the ability of 1/8th of the ship to stay afloat by punching through the wooden deck and 3.5 cm of armor below? Thats just plain dumb…
Any ww1 BB or cruiser can punch through that if the distance is long enough to arc the shells in. and basically any bomb can. While theres 230 / 200 mm lower deck armor a few decks below but even punching through that from above shouldnt lead to any water intake.

Also, on none of your pictures theres actually blacked out sections visible. Did you manage to black out complete sections with one salvo into one compartment like i did?

Jeez for claiming to be “realistic” the modelling of damage to reasonably accurately modelled battleships is hilariously bad. They should make “consistently inconsistent” their motto rly

it never was about water intake, but about structural integrity of the construction - 3 sections minus and your ship is doomed(“captain” command - abandon ship, open the seacocks), 2- if you are corvette or frigate. Just never was explained properly.

That’s a bug of the target dummy blacked sections and modules, they in a couple of seconds turn in to yellow without a reason. Still ignored not accepted by BT managers though.

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/33392qmohV86

And the structural integrity of a 73 000 ton battleship is endangered if 24 he rockets with 6.5 kg explosive mass that can barely pen the deck armor hit the deck? that doesnt make the tiniest bit more sense. So Crap modelling.

How does loss of structural integrity of 3 sections lead to sinking of a ship that has 8 or even 12 sections. All while they have way more watertight compartments irl than “only 12”

I think its not a bug someone once told me it is because basically only 100% “wows healthbar” is undamaged, 99% “wows healthbar” is instantly yellow, then maybe something like 60 is red and black at 0. Which funnily enough is also the amount of sense that makes considering capital ship damage model.

Because at that time Scharnhorst was demon of war thunder naval, and that is the worst way developers makes to ‘nerf’ Scharnhorst(which nerfs other ships more)

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literally a bug completely destroyed section - black ones, turn into yellow, considering that we have no section repair mechanic.

If i recall correctly they nerfed her first with the ammo elevator or barbette fires that if set very deep dont leave her enough time to extinguish before it reaches the magazine? Which also nerfs quite a lot of other ships as well, but is still a much better way of somehow making it so scharnhorst isnt the unkillable demon anymore (at least for the other bbs at its BR) that just cant be killed and wins matches simply by sailing straight into your team even without sinking a whole lot of enemies solely by keeping half the team busy dealing with it while the rest of his team has free reign. That was pretty bad gameplay wise even for naval RB standards.

But yeah, the compartments came around the same time and if that was intended to do something about the scharnhorst situation, doesnt do a whole lot about it since theres tons of ships with way more fragile hulls, or however the compartments are linked to the hulls. If its true what @Kweedko said and some have the compartments all the way to the upper deck and for some its only the much stronger, lower deck armor then thats quite some bs i might say.

Overall just a terrible mechanic that is nowhere further specified, nothing is explained in detail for each ship, its just a stupid wows like healthbar but not one per ship but 8 to 12. Like, you cant even check how many compartments each ship has in the hangar. Feels like they just slapped this in to make matches shorter, granting everyone more kills (which doesnt work bc, again, some ships take almost no compartment damage) and then were very happy that they never had to deal with their own dogwater mechanic ever again. Just a band-aid fix to the problem of insane engagement distances but on vehicles that go 50 to 60 kph, but ofc still have to fight on the classic pointless 3 cap gamemode that we’ll all love till we die. And, of matches that have to end in under 15 minutes, which barely is enough time to even make it to the caps once per match in a battleship.

I play this over wows because of more realistic gameplay and a more true to irl approach, not to watch some parts of the ship turn yellow, then red and at one point black and then thats it, no matter what side of the ship is getting shot at, without any consistency or feedback while its happening, while certain other ships sometimes feel like their compartments dont take any damage at all while being pounded by battleships for 15 minutes straight.

With 0 feedback whats actually happening to the health of certain compartments, which parts are damaged, impossible to repair any of that (while ofc a turret or exploded barbette is back in action 20 sec later, srsly?), whole magazines exploding in giant fireballs but not doing any damage to the compartments around them, but then 8 dumb rockets of a spitfire completely take one section of certain battleships out no problem. Magazines with 100s and 1000s of kg of tnt equivalent stored all the way in the ships belly exploding do nothing to the structural integrity but 8 rockets that barely pen the wooden deck “rip” the ship apart. Like, wtf? What was so bad about the old flooding mechanic that even had automatic counterflooding modelled that they had to replace it with this crap?

Like, whats the point of a min crew cutoff atm? when was the last time you won a duel or a fight because of knowing where a certain enemy ship holds lots of crew (which-in case it wasnt changed is still modelled very bad, like, 600 crew in amagis engine room? u sure bout that gaijin?) But its still a way better and realistic mechanic to have an enemy ship on such low crew that it cant operate anymore even if they still float somehow.