Trades a little LFP armor and the luxury of a 10.3 / 10.0 TI for better speed, that’s reasonable.
Even just limited to L15A3/A5 as they are now the Shir is still significantly better than most 9.7 BR MBTs. 5s reload for your first engagement and enough armor to stop early darts is much better than the comparable 9.7 BR tanks.
T-64B has ERA, penetration and comparable turret armor, but it’s losing in reload and gun handling. AMX-40 literally has speed and the coax as the sole hard advantages. Thermals are nice but ultimately a luxury item when they’re not the standard at the BR (above 10.7)
9.3 BR tanks have it worse.
That ain’t special for the UK. France gets things added pre-nerfed and then gets them uptiered again. Italy gets things in basically the same state. Nobody aside from the Big 3 and Sweden ever get to have nice things forever.
Yes, Obj 292 (among many many others) should probably be higher; but two wrongs don’t make a right.
What better speed? Just purely looking at stat cards they have the exact same speed. (minus the difference in acceleration that come from the CR1 being 2t heavier)
Spoiler
Reload rate on the FV4030 might be too high if it is to remain at 9.7, but Chieftain Mk10 has L23 at 9.0 with 7.5 second reload and isnt an issue. So the shell itself at 9.7 isnt the problem, if anything, for the British TT, its a tad on the weak side by that point.
Given the tiny first stage ammo at the moment, it likely has a longer reload than the Chieftain Mk10 after the first few shots.
Also comparing the FV4030 and Chieftain Mk10s, they arent that far off in terms of protection either I think .
Chieftain has thicker armour but its not composite
The FV4030 basically gives the Chieftain Mk10 slightly better zoom, better mobility and better fire rate, and probably some improvements on survivablity, but doesnt look like an extreme increase to me.
Overall I dont think the FV4030 is actually all that much of an issue at 9.7. That being said. L23A1 and moved to 10.0 would be still be better because we actually have other 10.0 vehicles like the Desert Warrior and Stormer AD
The difference in acceleration and overall offroad performance is pretty significant, you can actually afford to turn in the Shir and get back to decent speed well before a CR1 will. Chieftain is a slug in comparison, with bad engine power and low top speed. Shir can keep up with a half-upgraded wheeled LT offroad, while CR1 can only dream of that.
5s reload, even for only three shots is significant for 9.7 BR. That’s barely punishable. 7.5s is very easily punished. Not to mention the overall improved mobility giving you the ability to retreat faster and further reduce the time an enemy can use to punish you.
Against HEATFS, lesser ATGMs and lesser darts (T-64B is firing some of the best APFSDS for 9.7 BR) the hull is very resistant, to the point of being oppressive to lower BR opponents. The turret is best in tier, with higher BR ammo being a requirement to penetrate it. Stillbrew is decent, but full of holes and doesn’t cover every area of the front.
Agree to disagree here, the combination of improvements from the 9.3 upgraded Chieftain on the Shir make it absolutely zero fun to play alongside and painful to play against. They just roll forward with no effort, facerolling enemy teams and leaving little left for friendlies. It fits better at 10.0+, has more lineup there and actually fights decent counters often.
Well. Trying to spade it now and L15 CANNOT pen a T-64B anywhere and Im always getting one shot… So… Im wondering why its not 9.3 at the moment. Soif it lost L23, it would be 8.7 max.
Yep, doesnt matter where you get hit. You get one shotted. I dont really understand this “its armour is too OP for 9.7” comes from
Hmm? The turret can withstand 3BM42, when you are in a hull-down position you can trade fire with anyone who is aware of your position, so far I only got my barrel shot out and the occasional commander goes to valhalla, the turret so far has yet to die to anything in one-hit yet, most matches are 10.3 and it received the benefit of having great reverse speed to get out of troubles. SO FAR my stat is 44 kills with 16 deaths and I hadn’t score a nuke yet, one time got 7 kills and it was downtier so I think its in a good place at 9.7 but I imagine it will be moved up to 10.0 due to having 5 second reload speed, it has great mobility compare to T-64B and Sabra but lacks the penetration.
I rather it maintain its current state and stay at 9.7, if we look at the entire lineup as a balancing factor, 9.7 has nothing there and one death then we are down to using 9.3s as backups. But if they gonna move it up, then I think T-64B and Sabra will go to 10.0 too, I will hate that
That is the entire argument for it getting the necessary buffs to move it up to 10.0. that there is 0 line-up at 9.7. I’m using the chieftain mk10 as my backup because I’ve got nothing else.
If it was 10.0 we’d not be much better off in terms of MBTs but we’d have SPAA and IFVs that weren’t 8.3
Referring to the Jordanian Khalid. It’s a lot better than that tank. Same top ammo, but 5s reload, and gets around the battlefield similarly, with much better armor.
As a Britain main, respectfully, no. Britain finally has a competent MBT below 10.0, yes its an event vehicle, but its needed. You call yourself a Britain main but actively want to have one of the few good things Britain has at Rank 7 to be nerfed? Please hang your keys to your British Main title and go play another tech tree. Shir 2 stays at its BR.
You couldn’t just give it L23A1. It would have to get thermal too, and at that point it’s basically the Challenger DS. I would rather the vehicle be unique.
L23A1 and Thermals would be Challenger Mk2 at 10.3 not Chally DS as that has L26.
L23A1 and no thernals would most likely make it 10.0 which might be an overal healthier place for it because L23A1 does okay at 10.3 and 10.0 is an overall healthier line-up.
