FV3903 Churchill VII AVRE: With a tow, row, row, row for the British Grenadiers!

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1
[Would you like to see this in-game?]
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This vehicle was previously suggested in the old forum and Passed for Consideration there, but since the move to the new forum, no one has suggested it, so here’s my inferior attempt! You can read the older post here.

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With the Operation Overlord event over, we can now take a look at the successor to the Petard-bearer, the FV3903 armed with the 165mm HESH lobber currently found in the Centurion AVRE.

History

Built upon the chassis of the Churchill III and IVs, the original Churchill AVRE was introduced in 1944 for the British Royal Engineers. It proved its worth in the remainder of the Second World War as an engineering vehicle, being put up to tasks such as carrying fascines, serving as a mine sweeper, and - yes - using its famous Petard spigot mortar to destroy enemy emplacements.
Riding the coattails of this success, it was no surprise that Britain desired a successor to this concept and in 1947, development began. To set itself apart from its predecessor, this tank would be based out of the better-armored hull of the Churchill VII, and its primary armament would receive a substantial upgrade in the form of the 165mm Ordnance BL 6.5″ Mk.I howitzer (later designated L9 Demolition Gun). It eventually entered service in 1954 where eighty-eight was built in the next 24 years to serve along with its predecessor until it was phased out in favor of the FV4003 Centurion AVRE.

Specifications

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As a modified Churchill VII, the tank is very heavily armored and the L9 gun that succeeded the Petard offered a significant range advantage - with the capability to lob its 29 kg HESH shell up to 2400m away. Additionally, the tank was equipped with a 3 ton dozer blade that pivots over the fifth roadwheel.

Length: 7.44 m
Width: 3.25 m
Height: 2.49 m
Weight: Around 40 tonnes.
Engine: 350 HP Bedford twin-six petrol engine
Top Speed: 24 km/h
Armor: (Largely the same as Churchill VII)

  • Turret: 152mm front, 95mm side, 95mm rear, 20mm top
  • Hull: 140mm front, 57mm side, 50mm back, 19-25mm top
  • Superstructure: 152mm front, 95mm side, 16-19mm top

Crew: 5 (driver, hull gunner, gunner, loader, commander)
Primary Armament: 1x 165mm L9 Demolition Gun (-8 to +15 degrees, earlier model has a tube barrel, later model has a fume extractor)
Secondary Armament: 1x Hull mounted 7.92mm BESA machine gun
Additional Accessory:

  • 2x six-tube smoke dischargers
  • 3 ton hydraulic dozer blade

More Pictures!

Sources

5 Likes
2

Anything about the sights on the tank? As in are they the same as the VII or were they upgraded?

3

Not that I could find, sorry. From the honestly very limited resources I could find, the only thing that mentions the sights at all is the fact that they removed the turret mounted MG to fit one in.

1 Like
4

+1 for 5.0-6.0 range where UK doesn’t have any tech tree heavies, and preferably with the dozer as a modification

4 Likes
5

Did someone say another HESH launcher??
+1
I love shooting a round the weight of a Western Grey Kangaroo at the enemies.

3 Likes
6

+1 the Churchill AVRE we should have had.

3 Likes
7

A much improved Churchill AVRE! +1

8

Absolutely for around 5.3!
I personally prefer the look of the L9 over the L9A1

2 Likes
9

Need

1 Like
10

You have my +1, with Gaijin finally adding in the Petard Mortar version I’d definitely be interested in seeing more Churchill AVREs… maybe even the Churchill Mk III with the Arder Aggie mortar.

11

This should definitely be a TT or squadron (preferably ) version since two AVRE vehicles and 2 of the funnies in the game are event/BP/prem

4 Likes
12

This would be around the same BR as the BP. Considering the BP is a premium this should be a TT vehicle.

13

I think it would sit nicely around 4.7, since it will be sluggish to aim and slow to reload. It will be like a Churchill Mk.VII with stronger punch, but fewer shots per minute so you trade the nice fire rate for a nice, heavy shot.

14

Nah, 4.7 is where the current Mk. VII is. The 165mm Demolition Gun is already in game at BR 7.0 so it’d have to go way higher than that.

The Churchill Mk. VIII could probably go at 4.7 with the Mk. VII.

15

Even if the Demolition Gun is at 7.0 BR, it’s also there because of the whole package: the Centurion Mk. 5 tank and the extra armor package it received.
It has the ERA packs around the turret and hull front + the blade itslef + some 20mm armor plates on the sides, but as for the gun: it is hard to range shots above 800m and any shot that is not perfectly aimed will end up in just scratching the enemy tank - with some luck it might get a track down but even if it hits, I had moments with the Centurion AVRE where the HESH shot gets eaten by a module. And even if acceleration is not great, it has okayish speeds in front and reverse.

For Churchill there is no additional armor except for the dozer blade itself and you get a much slower vehicle than Centurion, which will have to take up shots since the reverse speed is also terrible and turning around will get you exposed. So, even if it has the same gun, don’t think about it as an equal to Centurion AVRE, more like equal to a KV-2 with a bit more armor, that’s why I say it would be great around 4.7, maybe 5.0 - 5.3. Anything above that and the Churchill Mk.VII AVRE will get instantly eaten out, even Black Prince struggles at 6.0 (and got stuck there since it got released, but it never got balanced in BR since not many people owns it) and not because of it’s gun, but rather the armor+mobility package which is not enough.

Edit: I know the HESH shot seems great on Centurion AVRE stats-wise, but it won’t guarantee kills. I even hit Tigers and other Russian heavies with it frontally and still survived, if you don’t trigger the hullbreak mechanic it won’t die instantly, but most likely it will kill a crew or two.

1 Like
16

Yeah, thus 5.7 and not higher. Churchill VII has very similar armour to the Black Prince which is 6.0, and the 165mm far more effective than the 75mm QF on the Mk VII.

The Churchill VIII, again, is 4.7 worthy as while it’s HEAT is better than the 75mm QF it still suffers from being HEAT.

17

Hell yes!

18

I still think the British Infantry Tank/Heavy tank line should go something like:

Churchill Mk VII → Churchill Mk VIII (foldered or premium) at 4.7 → Churchill Mk VII AVRE (165) around 5.7 to 6.0 → A45 P1 (17-Pdr) around 6.7 → FV201 (20-Pdr) around 7.3 without APDS or 7.7 with APDS (I prefer the former) → Caernarvon → Conqueror.

If Gaijin want another premium they can either use the Churchill Mk VII with wire mesh screens or FV201 DD tank.