France should get the Lorelei as Belgian Artevelde

Machinery of War Discussion Navy
1

Hi everyone, new dev season, new French controversy…

Would you like to see the Lorelei added to the French tree as Artevelde?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

This originally started out as a question to copy and paste the Lorelei to France as Artevelde, but unfortunately the reality has become a bit sadder for this issue, requiring me to ask for the vehicle to be moved over entirely from the German tree to the French one. I didn’t want to do this originally, but apparently Gaijin’s internal rules only allow a ship to appear once, and since Artevelde and Lorelei are the same ship, it can only appear once.

Anyway, the Lorelei didn’t start its life with that name, the Lorelei was laid down in Antwerp, Belgium, as the Artevelde (you can find the suggestion topic for it here). The first true warship for the Belgian navy… ever, and to-date, the biggest warship ever built in a Belgian dry-dock! Upon the invasion and occupation of Belgium, the Germans found the Artevelde in a nearly completed state, decided to launch, arm and commission it under the name Lorelei and subsequently used it as an escort.
After the defeat of Germany, the Lorelei was returned to Belgium where it was repaired. It’s career beyond this point was not very interesting, basically doing nothing until 1947 when it was decommissioned and turned into floating barracks before being scrapped in 1954.

Despite a lack of exciting operational history in Belgian hands, the ship still holds a very important place in its history due to being the first warship ever built for the Belgian navy. It even served as the flagship of the Belgian navy upon its return.
To Germany this is but a ship, and one with plenty of alternatives to replace it. To Belgium this is a unique ship with an important place in its naval history (despite a limited career in Belgium). Giving it to Germany means we can never play with it in its Belgian name, nor can we ever combine it with Belgian aviation assets. We would lose it to the Germans (again), but this time they can’t give it back.

Last but not least, as the Belgians didn’t change the ship upon getting it back, moving it over shouldn’t be too big a development job to complete.

Looking forward to seeing your feedback on this topic.

Be sure to support the suggestion as well if you haven’t yet:

14 Likes
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I fully agree!

Artevelde was built in Belgium for the Belgian Navy and is arguably one of the most important prestige ships in Belgian naval history. The fact that Germany completed and operated it as Lorelei during the occupation doesn’t really change its origins. If the ship can only exist once in-game, I think it makes more sense for it to appear in the French tree as Artevelde rather than in the German tree as Lorelei.

Germany has no shortage of naval options and replacements, whereas for Belgium this is a unique and historically significant vessel. It would also fit much better alongside the Belgian aircraft already present in the French tree, helping to build a more coherent Belgian sub-tree instead of scattering Belgian vehicles across multiple nations.

14 Likes
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I want Gaijin to change their internal rule.

It made sense when they were working with larger navies where you usually had a lot of sister ships for different configurations, but smaller navies don’t have that luxury.

It’s not just ships that changed owners over time but also ships that saw extensive changes over their career and don’t have enough siblings for each interesting version.

And some ships that they did add but in the less interesting form.

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This is indeed the other (preferable) option. If it were possible to just change their ways I’d be all for it, but I’m afraid it’ll be easier to move the ship than to change the way of working of the naval department.

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This update feels pretty disappointing for French and Benelux players. Belgium’s first unique vehicle is being placed in the German tree, despite being the only one of its class and having served under Belgium for much longer than it ever did with Germany.

Belgium is also getting an F-16A MLU copy-paste as a new top-tier premium with a new livery, which feels like a missed opportunity. It could have at least been a Dutch F-16A MLU instead, since that variant includes a few differences such as the brake parachute and structural strengthening straps, and would have helped better represent the Dutch side of the tree given that Belgium already has its own version and 3/4’s of the f-16’s in the tree are already from the belgian airforce.

As for France, there’s only the Jean Bart.

The only addition I’d really consider a strong point this update is the Belgian Leopard 1A5BE, as it is belgium’s last tank to see service.

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disagree,
as much as id like to see the Benelux tree extend into naval, I do think she’s more at home in the German tree, simply because did all her active service with the Germans
If I read your suggestion correctly, she was turned over to Belgium after the war disarmed and then spent the next couple years not really doing much of anything
It is of course a kinda sh*t situation to see your only option towards bluewater representation get dumped in someone else’s tree so I get why people are annoyed by it.

Perhaps her laid down sister could end up the French tree?
Not a fan of project vessels myself, but an ‘as designed’ variant would be even more Belgian than the germanized Artevelde

Spoiler

on a sidenote, i also think she should be a coastal vessel and 3.7 does seem a little unfair

1 Like
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i see no reason to oppose this change

if someone still wants it in both trees ig the german one should be renamed K4 and the different paint scheme can be considered a refit

8

A different paint scheme or even a refit wouldn’t be enough. The same ship continues to be the same ship. Smin was very clear in his wording that once this ship is added, it can’t appear anywhere else, the only thing that can be added would be a sister ship.

9

sadge

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If she has sister ship that served in Belgian navy, no
If she has never saw service in Belgian navy, no

If she’s the only ship of her class and served in Belgian navy, yes

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She is the only ship of her class and saw service for longer in the Belgian navy than in the German one.

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The Artevelde ship was made for the Belgian Navy and even being used after the war… as a proud Belgian it is a disgrace that they gave it a place in the german tech tree.

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I think, personally, Gaijin’s “rule” on the same ship in multiple TTs really does fall flat on its face in situations like this. Frankly, we should be able to get Artevelde as designed in the French Tree, and then K4 with her unique configuration in the German TT. Especially when you consider this thing is probably the only major Bluewater ship they can give Belgium, really makes no sense to deny it to Belgium.

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It 100% should be Belgian. You have my support in this fight.

The most unique(as it’s not a variant) Belgian vehicle this update and it’s the the German tree.

And with you guys making it sound like this is the only Bluewater ship period, it should be under the Belgium flag in the French tree.

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This post perfectly fits this meme:

i-dont-even-think-the-devs-care-about-the-making-the-v0-poq51cpiam8h1
i-dont-even-think-the-devs-care-about-the-making-the-v0-poq51cpiam8h11080×1029 974 KB

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Hmm, I was meant to make a topic on this two weeks ago yet forgot about it due to work.

While I 100% agree that the Artevelde should be in the french tree, another thing arises…

Why is this in the Bluewater TT? Tech tree names aside the vessel is rated a frigate & nearly all frigate type warships have been placed in the Coastal TT thus far, so it’s incredibly strange to see it end up in the german Bluewater TT. Yeah sure German Bias since the K class Sloop is there even though it should also be coastal as well especially since it used to have a small craft spawn from the get go.

Gaijin should just do away with this pointless one ship rule as it also effects a few suggestion posts, Artevelde is just another casualty in this bloody stupid requirement. Just give France/ Belgium Artevelde while Germany keeps Lorelei, WHAT IS SO HARD ABOUT THAT?!?!?!

Sightly off topic,
This update confuses myself & have already ranted this elsewhere in random chats, similar is the Egrets class Sloop yet somehow in game a destroyer, even through historically they’re closer frigates & all surviving sloops post WWII were re-rated frigates in 1947. Heh a Sloop/Frigate as a Destroyer for Bluewater while two Destroyers are Frigates im Coastal…

Hmm, I really messed up timing as I doubt such a rant will be heard given the likely chance the update is tomorrow…

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Egret magically has 2 less guns than IRL Egret too.

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Not only that, USN’s ‘destroyer escort’ is in coastal tree while RN and IJN’s ‘escort destroyer’ is in bluewater tech tree.

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Heh yeah true, I guess they wanted to show her in a configuration she was sunk in maybe? Hedgehogs, six cannons? Some Oerlikons…

Even then what does a 20kt “destroyer” bring to the game? Even oxy’s words are confusing when it’s supposed to be an “early player AA ship” yet the Hunt class Escort Destroyers are already slightly faster, carry more LAA & have six cannons, or the Abdiel class Minelayer (daftly called a cruiser in game), even that’s basically what this Egrets class is an has more LAA, has actual speed, same turret layout, mines.

Heh feel bad for small WT CC Adarvik, he mentioned in a conversation with me weeks ago a project involving an Egrets class & was using a Hunt class as stand in…

1 Like
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Kind request to stay on topic

1 Like