France should get the Lorelei as Belgian Artevelde

Machinery of War Discussion Navy
1

Hi everyone, new dev season, new French controversy…

Would you like to see the Lorelei added to the French tree as Artevelde?
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

This originally started out as a question to copy and paste the Lorelei to France as Artevelde, but unfortunately the reality has become a bit sadder for this issue, requiring me to ask for the vehicle to be moved over entirely from the German tree to the French one. I didn’t want to do this originally, but apparently Gaijin’s internal rules only allow a ship to appear once, and since Artevelde and Lorelei are the same ship, it can only appear once.

Anyway, the Lorelei didn’t start its life with that name, the Lorelei was laid down in Antwerp, Belgium, as the Artevelde (you can find the suggestion topic for it here). The first true warship for the Belgian navy… ever, and to-date, the biggest warship ever built in a Belgian dry-dock! Upon the invasion and occupation of Belgium, the Germans found the Artevelde in a nearly completed state, decided to launch, arm and commission it under the name Lorelei and subsequently used it as an escort.
After the defeat of Germany, the Lorelei was returned to Belgium where it was repaired. It’s career beyond this point was not very interesting, basically doing nothing until 1947 when it was decommissioned and turned into floating barracks before being scrapped in 1954.

Despite a lack of exciting operational history in Belgian hands, the ship still holds a very important place in its history due to being the first warship ever built for the Belgian navy. It even served as the flagship of the Belgian navy upon its return.
To Germany this is but a ship, and one with plenty of alternatives to replace it. To Belgium this is a unique ship with an important place in its naval history (despite a limited career in Belgium). Giving it to Germany means we can never play with it in its Belgian name, nor can we ever combine it with Belgian aviation assets. We would lose it to the Germans (again), but this time they can’t give it back.

Last but not least, as the Belgians didn’t change the ship upon getting it back, moving it over shouldn’t be too big a development job to complete.

Looking forward to seeing your feedback on this topic.

Be sure to support the suggestion as well if you haven’t yet:

11 Likes
2

I fully agree!

Artevelde was built in Belgium for the Belgian Navy and is arguably one of the most important prestige ships in Belgian naval history. The fact that Germany completed and operated it as Lorelei during the occupation doesn’t really change its origins. If the ship can only exist once in-game, I think it makes more sense for it to appear in the French tree as Artevelde rather than in the German tree as Lorelei.

Germany has no shortage of naval options and replacements, whereas for Belgium this is a unique and historically significant vessel. It would also fit much better alongside the Belgian aircraft already present in the French tree, helping to build a more coherent Belgian sub-tree instead of scattering Belgian vehicles across multiple nations.

10 Likes
3

I want Gaijin to change their internal rule.

It made sense when they were working with larger navies where you usually had a lot of sister ships for different configurations, but smaller navies don’t have that luxury.

It’s not just ships that changed owners over time but also ships that saw extensive changes over their career and don’t have enough siblings for each interesting version.

And some ships that they did add but in the less interesting form.

2 Likes
4

This is indeed the other (preferable) option. If it were possible to just change their ways I’d be all for it, but I’m afraid it’ll be easier to move the ship than to change the way of working of the naval department.

1 Like
5

This update feels pretty disappointing for French and Benelux players. Belgium’s first unique vehicle is being placed in the German tree, despite being the only one of its class and having served under Belgium for much longer than it ever did with Germany.

Belgium is also getting an F-16A MLU copy-paste as a new top-tier premium with a new livery, which feels like a missed opportunity. It could have at least been a Dutch F-16A MLU instead, since that variant includes a few differences such as the brake parachute and structural strengthening straps, and would have helped better represent the Dutch side of the tree given that Belgium already has its own version and 3/4’s of the f-16’s in the tree are already from the belgian airforce.

As for France, there’s only the Jean Bart.

The only addition I’d really consider a strong point this update is the Belgian Leopard 1A5BE, as it is belgium’s last tank to see service.

Even so, I would have liked to see the Leopard 1V added alongside it as well.

2 Likes
6

disagree,
as much as id like to see the Benelux tree extend into naval, I do think she’s more at home in the German tree, simply because did all her active service with the Germans
If I read your suggestion correctly, she was turned over to Belgium after the war disarmed and then spent the next couple years not really doing much of anything
It is of course a kinda sh*t situation to see your only option towards bluewater representation get dumped in someone else’s tree so I get why people are annoyed by it.

Perhaps her laid down sister could end up the French tree?
Not a fan of project vessels myself, but an ‘as designed’ variant would be even more Belgian than the germanized Artevelde

Spoiler

on a sidenote, i also think she should be a coastal vessel and 3.7 does seem a little unfair

1 Like
7

i see no reason to oppose this change

if someone still wants it in both trees ig the german one should be renamed K4 and the different paint scheme can be considered a refit

8

A different paint scheme or even a refit wouldn’t be enough. The same ship continues to be the same ship. Smin was very clear in his wording that once this ship is added, it can’t appear anywhere else, the only thing that can be added would be a sister ship.

9

sadge

10

If she has sister ship that served in Belgian navy, no
If she has never saw service in Belgian navy, no

If she’s the only ship of her class and served in Belgian navy, yes

11

She is the only ship of her class and saw service for longer in the Belgian navy than in the German one.