Thank you.
Does it genuinely matter who created it?
Key words. Export Use.
The US produced the P-66 for export use. The A-35. The CW-21. All export use. You don’t see these vehicles in the US tech tree, do you? What about the M4A4, or the M3A3, or M26A1, or M113A1 TOW, How about Germany and the Leopard 1A2? Or back to the US for the M48A2, or F-86D/K, etc. etc.
And don’t go ahead and say “well it’s more complex” because it’s not. It’s simple. Export vehicles go to the trees of the country they were exported to. Not the nation that produced them. That has been, is, and always will be the standard. China should be treated no different. It is not special, and does not deserve to be treated as special.
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Nothing about treating China as special and genuinely more being a far more complex situation.
It’s a complex geopolitical situation between three countries, two of which are on strained terms with China. Mind you, Gaijin is a Russian company - Russia and China are allies and this potentially complicates matters in ways we may not know of publicly. …As silly as it sounds since Warthunder is a video game.
Let’s also not forget that Gaijin being a company will 100% listen to money more than anything else; If a region’s playerbase suddenly boycotts the game, that’s a chunk of revenue they’re not making.
So no, it’s not simple.
China has absolutely been given special treatment. A vehicle produced explicitly for export denied to a country that actually uses it, and only allowed in the Chinese tree. That has not been allowed for any other nation in game. Nations have been allowed to have vehicles as well, but never have they denied the user nation a vehicle beforehand.
Also, China has been gloriously catered too politically. Their is no Taiwan option, no Republic of China option, no Republic of China flag, or Taiwan flag option for the menu settings. The tree can only have the PRC flag if you want options for China. The US has to bear the flag of Iran, if someone really wanted it to (and don’t tell me the political situation “isn’t the same”, the US does not like Iran and vice versa). Great Britain can have the flag of Ireland, or India, two nations that famously do not have good relations with the British.
Gaijin listens to Chinese audiences arguably more so then the general public. China has better discounts then we have ever been given (when’s the last time you saw a British vehicle get an 80% discount for the people of GB?). The only issue China has (like every other nation in game has, not making it an outlier) comes to big reports, and again- every nation in game struggles with them to some degree.
You can sit here and tell me a lot of things. You cannot sit here and tell me China has not been given some form of preferential, special treatment.
The Thai VT-4 deserves to be in the Thai tree. Full stop. China can have it too, but does not deserve and should not be allowed to have exclusive access to it.
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In fact, we believe that the performance of Chinese domestic vehicles in the game has been unfairly maligned (for example, the recent J-10C), which has caused a lot of dissatisfaction with Gaijin. So from the perspective of us Chinese players, Gaijin isn’t giving us any so-called ‘special treatment.’
The differences in perspective between us have amplified these controversies.
I think, at present, our focus as players should be on how to get Gaijin to fix the bugs we’ve reported so that the game becomes better. Maybe we should set aside some of these disputes?
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This is a misstep by Gaijin, I can agree. It should have the upgraded engine and the Gripen E should be higher.
Sure, fair, but that should have started long ago before the VT-4 drama. I honestly think that ruined any chance I believe at a global unified front on forcing Gaijin to make changes.
I understand that you all are upset about that. I ask that you all understand that feeling happens with every nation and every nation player. The Abrams, the Leos, the T-72s, the F-15s, the Brimstones, the F-4s, the MiG-23s, and so on and so forth. Everyone in some way feels like they have been screwed out of something and that their big report is most important. It is not something that China alone has- and the problem is their are plenty of people who believe that only China is receiving this treatment and asking that China be given preference, hence the “special treatment”
Of course it happens with other nations too, and those people do need to take a step back as well. It just feels as though with China it is amplified by a much more nationalistic community, and that they receive their way more often then the other nation communities. And that is what makes the issue so big.
TLDR; China has moments of struggle like everyone else. The problem is that China believes it is only them that has that struggle and believes they should get preferential treatment because of it, even though, again, it happens to every other nation.
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Okay, I’m glad to receive your reply.
Actually, we also completely understand how you feel: seeing a vehicle you like being slandered.
Regarding the issue you mentioned about rising nationalism in China, it’s quite complicated. Simply put, Chinese people are generally very friendly toward foreigners, and we are happy to communicate and interact with others—this has been a long-standing part of our culture. But you know, sometimes our goodwill isn’t met with a positive response (I have also experienced racial discrimination in games multiple times), which has led to increasingly negative impressions of foreigners.
Actually, I’m very curious about your views on China in real life. It seems that many people think China is similar to ‘Nineteen Eighty-Four’.
1984 is a little bit of an understatement in how China is portrayed in the West. Like it’s some dystopian surveillance state on the verge of collapse.
Nah, I misread the post. I apologize.
It’s okay
Sorry, this sentence reminded me of one of our jokes.
W: They said we provided military aid to Country A? But we didn’t.
M: It’s simple, let’s conduct a double-blind experiment.
W: Huh?
M: We choose two months, in one month we provide military aid to Country A, and in the other month we cancel the military aid. Then, in the third month, let soldiers from Country B talk about when they felt Country A received military aid. Naturally, the people questioning us will know whether we had actually provided aid to Country A before.
You probably also understand that every country has very sensitive areas in the political field.
The VT4 incident, in the eyes of Chinese players, is similar to Western players discovering that a real World War II German flag was added in a game.
It’s not. Their is a free market economy and as a nation it has options a true 1984 state absolutely would not. I’ve been fortunate enough to actually know several people from China; nice individuals and some not nice individuals (because they were rude people, not anything political or like that).
Anything further than that I can disclose privately, not here on the forums. I do not want to be removed for Political Speech.
This I do understand. A lot of pressure and negative stereotypes have been carried over from other games and past experiences, and are applied universally. That said, there is nothing I (me personally) can do about that mass.
My main complaint is also not towards Chinese people, it’s towards people who play and “main” China. Their are, I’m sure, plenty of non-Chinese Chinese mains (say that ten times fast) who also complain. Again, the problems we experience are the same, my only issue is that people who main China often think it is only them who has the issue, when it is not necessarily the case. However I can do nothing about it here on an Internet forum.
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I understand this. However their is a difference in a way. Unfortunately, their are still people who believe in the German WW2 movement, and the German WW2 symbol to not be named is actively still used as a symbol of hatred. Japan, in game, no longer has the Rising Sun flag as their main flag (in fact it isn’t even an option), and no longer really displays symbols from the atrocious past they had in East Asia. Plus, if the game can have something such as the Hammer and Sickle (USSR also committed many atrocities in its existence as a nation), than I do think it is fair to roll out the VT-4, especially since it is coming in under the Thai flag, in the Thai tree.
But, of course, politics is a hard line. I just don’t like how inconsistent Gaijin is with the line they have drawn. While I absolutely think a certain WW2 symbol should stay banned, if you are going to not add the VT-4 to the Thai tech tree over politics, you should not have added the RoC to the PRC flag or the M1A2T to China. You should not have a Hammer and Sickle symbol in game. Etc. etc.
In the end, it’s really the inconsistency that bothers me, and I’m sure many others.
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Guys China isnt recieving any bias treatment, but equally mistreated as the rest of the nations aside from USSR.
We should really do something when USSR vehicles in compare comes with almost no or low bugs, and even many of its bugs are a buff.
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This christmas update was just made for russia. Mig25. Terminator killing 9.3 above. Su30sm2 with the best radar. Im trying to compare the blessings for the other countries but all I can think of is Aesa radars but not as good as SM2 and Japan finally getting 14.3 air albeit not really Japanese aircrafts. Oh and poor america with their “super” hornet and britian with their ajax on the terminator’s leash.
The only exciting thing of this half of the year its the infantry
Im not. All of our money went to a new feature no one asked for and not fixing our current issues with the game. We already have enlisted for people to play as infantry.
You just got a version of Abrams that’s arguably better than all the rest in the US tree…why so sad?
They’re mostly complaining about air. They already won in ground with rejecting the VT4 for Japan and getting an abrams.