For the love of Everything,stop giving Tier VII/VIII vehicles to everyone

[BleedingUranium]

@iMatty01

You take months regardless of buying premiums or not

You… don’t. Which is why this topic is here.

@iMatty01

it’s 2024

Did you seriously just try to use this embarrassing meme of a non-statement?

@iMatty01

If you want a solo game without the hussle, go play single-player games.

That’s, in fact, an argument for all players having access to everything, not against.

If you don’t want to have to play with “bad” players, try playing a singleplayer game instead of multiplayer; you’re not owed “good” teammates.

@iMatty01

There are other players that plays this game too and that can’t afford a premium to ease the grind,what do we tell about them?that they deserve […] to have a longer grind because they were born in the unfortunate part of the world or for other reasons?

I mean… it’s an unfortunate reality, but a reality nonetheless. This is a hobby.

You’re trying to argue that some people shouldn’t be able to have something simply because other people can’t have that thing, which is nonsense.

[Laserdestroy]

@iMatty01

And the fact that there are people that don’t enjoy the game because there’s a direct passageway to get stomped is a proof that this system is not healthy

First off, I never said it was a healthy system. Taking away player’s choice in how they want to play is not the answer. People enjoy the game differently, some people don’t care about their stats and just enjoy a causal game where they can take their favorite modern tank out for a drive and hopefully kill someone. Not everyone cares about K/D, W/L, and stat padding.

@iMatty01

You take months regardless of buying premiums or not,so yeah. Point not granted

It didn’t take me months to get time M1A1 Clickbait and M1A1. It doesn’t take anyone months to get the Golden Russian 10.0 lineup. Didn’t take me months to get an 8.0 Swedish lineup either. Got a top tier French, Swedish, Isreali, American, British, Russian, and Germany jet pretty fast too. I even got great naval lineups for multiple nations too. Guess how long it took? About 30 seconds. I got vehicles I actually liked and bypassed the ones I didn’t like. There are more just like me that have done the same exact thing.

@iMatty01

Sorry,but this is part of the game. Everyone is in the same boat

Obviously not if people can buy a premium and just want to play that. I’ve even done that with the Kfir Canard, I didn’t want to really play any of the jets below 10.0 in Isreal and I pretty much haven’t. The only plane I’ve cared about in that tree is the Nesher so far, and I could research the whole rest of the tree with the Kfir Canard if I felt like it. Same with Sweden’s air, same with Sweden’s ground. I have an 8.0 lineup with the Vidar and Strv 103-0 and I don’t intend to play any Swedish vehicles until I reach 8.0 in the tree. Russia gets 4 GE vehicles at 10.0 that you can use for the entire tree and never play anything else.

@iMatty01

Stop with this “their money,their choice” argument please, it’s 2024. This is a team game, you must take responsibility of the fact that your actions have consequences for the entire match, positive or negative. If you want a solo game without the hussle, go play single-player games.

What does year have to do with anything? The money used for premium items PAYS for this FREE TO PLAY game. I bet when you spend money on things you like having a choice too. You probably don’t walk into the grocery store and pick random stuff to buy, you probably have preferences about the groceries you buy. People have preferences on what they want to buy in this game, if they choose to.

This is barely a “team game” when no actual team play is encouraged. Combat has a minimum of two sides to it, so of course a game about combat would too. Most players are here to run around in vehicles, fly planes, or sail ships in order to destroy their counterparts. I have a feeling not many players come to Warthunder because they really want to capture points. Plus, capturing points gives you LESS than it used to if someone helps you cap. Great way to encourage capping points when you get less reward if you are assisted.

@iMatty01

There are other players that plays this game too and that can’t afford a premium to ease the grind,what do we tell about them?that they deserve to be stomped and to have a longer grind because they were born in the unfortunate part of the world or for other reasons?

There are other people in the world without electricity and can’t play Warthunder, what do you tell them? Nothing because everyone’s situation is different. I busted my ass in life to get a 40+ dollar an hour job so I can enjoy things. I earned the money for my PC, my internet speeds, and games that I want to play. I can’t help at all if someone else isn’t as well off as me, everyone has their own problems in life because life isn’t fair to everyone. And seeing that this game is 100% FREE TO PLAY, you don’t need money to experience the game, not even a cover charge like Call of Duty. I’m glad my money goes to keeping this game alive so ANYONE can enjoy it the way they CHOOSE to.

@iMatty01

In this case, you’ll resolve the one-death leavers problem and resolve the inconsistency/lack of skill that wallet warriors usually tend to have

“Wallet Warriors” are what keeps this game alive. It blows my mind that people can’t comprehend this. If people didn’t buy premiums and premium time then Warthunder WOULD CEASE TO EXIST. Perhaps solving the problem behind ODL would be a better solution instead of treating the symptoms. Perhaps you aren’t aware that a lot of the ODL that happens are lv 100 players buying a premium to grind a tech tree they haven’t started. What do you do about that? What do you do about the players that only want to bring 1 vehicle because the gameplay is usually one sided or don’t want to drag useless lower tier vehicles into a match that would be useless? While we’re at it, why not restrict access to low tiers for lv 100s? It isn’t fair for the new players to have experienced players shit on them all day, is it? Take that choice away too like you propose for premiums. Experienced players shouldn’t be able to make the newer player’s experience worse right?

@iMatty01

And the fact that there are people that don’t enjoy the game because there’s a direct passageway to get stomped is a proof that this system is not healthy

You said it yourself, there are people that don’t enjoy the game because there is a direct passageway to getting stomped. The only passageway new players have is starting the game new, and that passageway leads to getting shit on. I bet the THOUSANDS of players you killed at rank 4 and below were having a blast while you took your 15 days of game experience in tanks to wreck their days. The worst part is you do it in Arcade, where most of the newest players are.

[Aegis270]

I would pay extra for a non-premium MM queue, where I could only play with other players with full lineups and mostly (if not entirely) non-premium vehicles too.

Wouldn’t solve every problem, but being able to exclude wallet warriors, one death leavers, inexperienced premium players and players abusing overperforming premiums would vastly improve my gameplay experience.

[MXY7_Ohka_when]

There should not be tech trees at all, just premium vehicles, after all we wouldn’t want to gatekeep anything, gatekeeping is bad!

[Laserdestroy]

@iMatty01

Good,other than confirming your egoistic mind,i can tell you that there are people in this game that busted their ass more than you,earn worse or better than you, and still refuse to have this free passageway because they’re CURIOUS of this game.

Yes, advocating for player’s to keep their ability to decide what they want to do with their recreational time is sooo selfish of me.

@iMatty01

This is the core of a rotten behaviour. Gaijin’s devs spend DAYS creating a single vehicle for a line,and what’s their reward? having said vehicles abandoned because a wallet warrior decided that his new premium toy is far better than all of the line. Screw learning the history of that nation,the evolution of their vehicles,screw learning better how to use said vehicles,screw everything,am i right?

I have more vehicles spaded than you have unlocked, I have actually played more nations and more vehicles than you and have learned more as a result. Premiums and premium time allow me to accomplish much more than you in less time.

@iMatty01

I don’t talk with wallet warriors that open their mouths only when their toys are touched and that they think that they’re the foundation of this game, i have my dose of god-complex people in the real world

Right, you seem to perfer people that only agree with you, have fun muting me because you can’t stand actual discorse.

@iMatty01

Let’s go and ask some ARB player that simply loves to fly and have a fun fight what it’s like to be alone in the match because either his team of the enemy’s had a ton of premium aircrafts that crashed on take off because people literally don’t know how to fly planes,let alone jets?

Lets go ask that Air RB player that likes to have a fun fight in their aircraft how they feel when their team get wrecks when a player with 1k hours in the same rank they are playing if they had fun.

[StickyDeccal]

@war_Tinder

In my view, you should not be able to buy a premium unless you already have 1 tech tree rank below it.

Don’t get me wrong, your point is somewhat can work, but hear me out.

If you only allow the player to buy the next rank premium vehicle, then there is no point of giving the premium vehicles the ability of researching all the way from Rank I to the next Rank of the Premium vehicle. Instead, dividing the Level of the player and Rank of the vehicles would be a better approach. Like;

• 1-10 Level can buy max: Rank II
• 10-20 Level can buy max: Rank III
• 20-30 Level can buy max: Rank IV
• 30-50 Level can buy max: Rank V
• 50-70 Level can buy max: Rank VI
• 70-90 Level can buy max: Rank VII
• 90-100 Level can buy max: Rank VIII

Like that, the players can get significant amount of skill until they reach to the 100 Level, then there would be no problem to have skilled premium vehicles in the team.

Also, limiting the access of HIGH RANK PREMIUM vehicles makes the Level Progress harder, which means players even get more skill till to the 100 Level.

[iMatty01]

This is also a very good idea,it incentives players to actually play very well in their brackets,and as a reward they can get the premium they wanted

[GNDM_Panzer]

It would also help these folks save money instead of paying full price for a vehicle for a F2P game that they’d end up dropping in a week.

And it would be a great measure to really crack down on bot accounts.

[iMatty01]

No but you must understand,this game is dead without wallet warriors so we need to force everyone to buy premium vehicles because freemiums are the real noobs

[GNDM_Panzer]

It’s by nature a double-edged sword. Simple as that.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@war_Tinder

In my view, you should not be able to buy a premium unless you already have 1 tech tree rank below it.

That would make Premiums completely pointless.

The whole point of spending money on a Premium vehicle is to skip grinding time… if you have to grind all the way to the previous rank of the vehicle, then spending money on said vehicle is pointless, since you have already been forced to grind all the way up there anyway, so… why spend money now, when you already did most of the job without it?

@war_Tinder

As for top tier event vehicles, they should just stop existing.

They are Gaijin’s primary source of income because most War Thunder players are interested in Top Tier, AKA modern vehicles.

Keep in mind not everyone has the physical time or willpower to spend months grinding through vehicles they don’t like or even enjoy playing at all just to get to the ones they actually want to play…

In my case, I am a student who likes modern tanks. Currently I have Top Tier in 8 trees, and most of them have been thanks to Top Tier premiums.

Without them, I would NEVER have been able or bothered to go through all the interwar, WW2, postwar and Cold War vehicles for months till I could finally get a taste of the modern tanks I was looking forward to play.

Basically, this is how I grinded my trees:

-Without Premium Top Tiers: Germany, Russia.
-With Premium Top Tiers, starting from Rank IV-V: U.K, U.S, Japan.
-With Premium Top Tiers, from scratch: Israel, France, Sweden.

So… basically, without Top Tier Premiums, I would only have Germany and Russia; maybe U.K too, if anything. But… that would be it. 3 nations instead of 8.

You guys should keep in mind that not all of us like or are interested in vehicles that aren’t modern MBTs, so not allowing us to skip the non-modern MBT grind even by paying is forcing us to spend huge amounts of time not even enjoying the game just because some customers are bad players, just like many veterans.

And even then, I constantly see at Top Tier Level 100s with full lineups performing horribly bad and/or leaving the match after 1 death because they rage-quitted, dislike the map, or any other reason. So it’s not like poor performance or one-death leaving is a Premium player issue exclusively.

In fact, sometimes I see Premium players putting more effort than the rest of the team; on the one hand, T-90Ms, KA-52s, M1A2 SEPs, TKXs and Leopard 2A7Vs leaving after one death even though they have full lineups available; on the other hand, a M1A1 Click-Bait player who not only spawns a backup Click-Bait, but also then spawns M1A1 AIM and, after that, a backup AIM. So the “evil Premium player” has already put more effort into the match than the “supper dupper veteran who grinded through sweat and tears” did when they left after a single death.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@iMatty01

This is the core of a rotten behaviour. Gaijin’s devs spend DAYS creating a single vehicle for a line,and what’s their reward? having said vehicles abandoned because a wallet warrior decided that his new premium toy is far better than all of the line. Screw learning the history of that nation,the evolution of their vehicles,screw learning better how to use said vehicles,screw everything,am i right?

Oh, God forbid people having different interests and personal tastes.

Seriously, of all anti-Premium arguments I’ve ever seen, the “Premiums are bad because you skip the history of a nation’s regular trees” is the… dumbest I’ve ever read.

The only rotten behaviour here is the behaviour and your apparent deep hatred towards those who have different personal interests than you.

@iMatty01

You’re egoistical,you literally don’t care about this game other than yourself.

Honestly, it’s YOU the one that comes off egoistical. You pretend like we should force everyone to play as to and how you consider it to be the “proper way” and thou bash those who simply want to dedicate their time and efforts into what interests them, all because you consider that “they” are reducing the quality of YOUR gameplay. Who is the one being egoistical; the one who simply wants to play certain vehicles and not play for others’ pleasure, or the one who pretends like everyone who disagrees with their own view is “egoistical and a burden to the game”?

@iMatty01

This statement is so inaccurate that i’m sick repeating this over and over. No,despite Gaijin being an indie company, their only intake is not premium time/vehicles/GE. A game i’ve used to play,which was free to play,said that the cosmetics of a certain weapon obtained in a mission “helped” funding the next mission,to boost the sellings of both the cosmetics and the access to the next mission.
In reality, the funding came for external sources, the cosmetics and the missions were used to further raise the funds of the devs related to the cosmetic stores.

Gaijin Entertainment is not an indie company, wtf. It’s an AA developer which dedicates 130 employees to War Thunder’s development and no, I assure to you War Thunder’s servers, development and maintain ent would NOT be feasible “with cosmetic items”. You have no idea how F2Ps like this works.

Do you think some people buying some skins or decorations is enough to pay for the full-time salary of 130 people, the game servers, the outsourced 3D models and all the research, development and resources it takes to implement 30 new vehicles every 3 months along with engine updates, new mechanics, sound and graphics improvements, etc?

No. War Thunder’s development and maintain ent costs hundreds of thousands every month, a bunch of people buying some skins is NOT going to pay all of this.

You may hate people who spend money in War Thunder, but this game’s development and maintain lent is only possible THANKS to them. Without them, I assure you we wouldn’t be where we are now.

@iMatty01

Let’s take another game: it costs 50€ to get it, not many people buy it every month and yet there are constant updates,all of them free

Which game is presumably that?
Has that game been regularly updated and maintained every 3 months for 11 years?
Is that game a World Guinness Record holder of amount of content within a single game?
Is that game growing exponentially every year that passes instead of going on a decline?
Does that game have 100,000-150,000 active players at all time, with several million users being active players and growing?
No? I thought so.

[war_Tinder]

@StickyDeccal

Instead, dividing the Level of the player and Rank of the vehicles would be a better approach. Like;

• 1-10 Level can buy max: Rank II
• 10-20 Level can buy max: Rank III
• 20-30 Level can buy max: Rank IV
• 30-50 Level can buy max: Rank V
• 50-70 Level can buy max: Rank VI
• 70-90 Level can buy max: Rank VII
• 90-100 Level can buy max: Rank VIII

Like that, the players can get significant amount of skill until they reach to the 100 Level, then there would be no problem to have skilled premium vehicles in the team.

I actually really like this idea and I think it is better than what I suggested.

@StickyDeccal

If you only allow the player to buy the next rank premium vehicle, then there is no point of giving the premium vehicles the ability of researching all the way from Rank I to the next Rank of the Premium vehicle.

This is a really good point that I didn’t consider and I think it is the primary reason why your suggestion is actually better than mine. I really support this.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

That would make Premiums completely pointless.

The whole point of spending money on a Premium vehicle is to skip grinding time… if you have to grind all the way to the previous rank of the vehicle, then spending money on said vehicle is pointless, since you have already been forced to grind all the way up there anyway, so… why spend money now, when you already did most of the job without it?

@war_Tinder

As for top tier event vehicles, they should just stop existing.

They are Gaijin’s primary source of income because most War Thunder players are interested in Top Tier, AKA modern vehicles.

Keep in mind not everyone has the physical time or willpower to spend months grinding through vehicles they don’t like or even enjoy playing at all just to get to the ones they actually want to play…

As I just said, this is why I think @StickyDeccal’s suggestion is better.

I’m also aware that this would never happen. It would reduce income for Gaijin and thus would never happen. I am entirely cognizant of that. As much as I think it would be better for game health, I know it won’t happen.

[Thakky]

I think they should just give other ways to grind in the game ,this is why i can see people camping high tier , i haven’t reach high tier yet because i like play all of the nations and i am slowly getting all vehicles currently rank 4/5.

One thing i have not done yet is buying high tier premium because for me that will kill the interest of the game , however i did bought rank 3 premium tanks on some nations , 1 thing i realized is if you play like me and go tier by tier (rank) you actually get better at the game and is just more fun , i actually learned how to plane in ground forces too because of damm annoying cas.

Anyway i wont judge someone for being that good in game , i dont think is because a premium vehicle he is that good , some people do that on alt accounts , keep that in mind.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@war_Tinder

As I just said, this is why I think @StickyDeccal’s suggestion is better.

I’m also aware that this would never happen. It would reduce income for Gaijin and thus would never happen. I am entirely cognizant of that. As much as I think it would be better for game health, I know it won’t happen.

I could agree with that idea with some refinements too, indeed, as well!

Although I still find it to be gatekeeping, it may be justified in an attempt to solve some of the issues.

That being said, the reason why I’m not 100% a fan is that I’ve seen low level players stomping on Level 100s in Top Tier, after which said Level 100s raged that “a noob could just wallet-warrior them”, which contradicts the “all <90 levels are noobs”.

Some people, even newer players, can be inherently better than others in Top Tier. Not only because these vehicles have many commodities that make gameplay easier, but because many of them are MBT enthusiasts, experts and even real life tank veterans.

Here’s a solution that just occurred to me as I wrote this!

A PVE TEST to unlock access to a respective tier’s Premiums!

For example, to gain access to Rank VIII Premiums, you need to pass a PVE test where you play said Premium vehicle in a complex, difficult PVE mission.

Only if you accomplish the mission is your access to said vehicle unlocked.

That way, if a new player or low level player proves to be good enough, they aren’t gate-kept from the vehicle they want; while players who are not ready for the tier, regardless of their level, can’t access it to be burdens to their teams.

This “PVE Test” system would go accompanying the player Level-based one. The player level-based one would be the default, while this one would give an option to bypass it if you prove to be worthy of it.

It may need some refinements, but, as of now… how does it sound?

That being said, I think it’s too late to do any of this and I doubt Gaijin would do any of this. I think the best we can do is just get used to it, know that they will always be there and that it’s just a matter of days or weeks in the worst case until these players learn the game through experience anyway.

[war_Tinder]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

It may need some refinements, but, as of now… how does it sound?

I actually really really like this idea. Player level or a PvE test to bypass it. I think that works really well as a combination and if you want to buy top tier vehicles early, the PvE mission also incentivizes people to get better at the game.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

That being said, the reason why I’m not 100% a fan is that I’ve seen low level players stomping on Level 100s in Top Tier, after which said Level 100s raged that “a noob could just wallet-warrior them”, which contradicts the “all <90 levels are noobs”.

For me it’s not about level 90s and 80s having top tier premiums. I see the issue as players less than level 50 having them. Top tier premiums can be super powerful the right hands and owning a top tier premium is not inherently bad. Even I own quite a few. The issue is people less than level 50 having them because not only are they much more likely to sink a match for their team, but doing badly so many times there out of a lack of experience hurts their own experience of top tier and gives them an inherently bad impression of it, thus turning them away from top tier for a long time, possibly forever.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

hough I still find it to be gatekeeping, it may be justified in an attempt to solve some of the issues.

I agree. I don’t like gatekeeping. I see gatekeeping as inherently bad. But in this circumstance, I also see it as a necessary evil.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@war_Tinder

I agree. I don’t like gatekeeping. I see gatekeeping as inherently bad. But in this circumstance, I also see it as a necessary evil.

Yep. In this case, gatekeeping isn’t about the core elitist concept of raw gatekeeping (at least to most of us), but about avoiding the consequences of players having access to parts of the game they may not be ready for.

So… if an Iraq veteran or an MBT expert wants to get a Top Tier MBT, they will have no issue passing the PVE test; but if it’s just some new random player who simply gets into War Thunder because it looks cool, they will have to actually learn enough to prove they are ready not to be a burden.

@war_Tinder

I actually really really like this idea. Player level or a PvE test to bypass it. I think that works really well as a combination and if you want to buy top tier vehicles early, the PvE mission also incentivizes people to get better at the game

I am glad to read that!

[SinisterIsRandom]

Cold War, WW2.
The neglected POVs cause Gaijin to only focus on the late Cold War to Modern-day vehicles. This has already been proven when an update only has 2 WW2 and a couple of early to mid cold war vehicles at best that are new.

[GNDM_Panzer]

Trust me, you’re not the only one wanting more content for the lower BRs.

[SinisterIsRandom]

Yep.