My point is that APHE is a drop in the ocean these days ,who cares about it when higher
WW2 BR are full of more modern ammo and when we have used the same shell for so many years anyway.
Its something over nothing.Sitting back and letting your armour do the work is a pointless exercise anyway now.Like I said ,the chances of having those log range duels with similar tanks is a memory as the Artillery just wades in and ruins it.Might as well lose the 8MPH speed and play a fast 60s needle gun or arty piece.
Again you’re showing one instance where one overpowered gun can frontally penetrate a Panther with only a possibility of knocking it out compared to APHE which is almost a guaranteed knock out, almost every other AP focused tank will bounce clean off that UFP. If you think one high powered AP is bad because it can at time one-shot a tank then how on earth are you defending APHE which frontally one-shots tanks considerably easier with far less need for precision 90% of the time.
If the ARL hits the Panther with a bad shot to the side it’ll do nothing. If the Panther hits the ARL with a bad shot to the side it’s killing the turret crew or totally eliminating the tank defeating all physics and historical documentation regarding how APHE actually works, because APHE penetration=internal bomb.
Post war vehicles fighting WW2 vehicles are an issue, but unlike post war vehicles APHE breaks game balance right from the start.
Observe how 19g of explosive filler completely annihilates a Pz IV with a shot through the front plate.
Name some tank at this br. I know only 2 : arl44 and sherman sa50, both Can Pen front in theory.
That’s exactly how i see that you have never played arl before. If you’re afraid to not kill the whole crew, you can just kill his turret, or aim his ammo, there’s a way to use ap, and flanking is obviously not a good way to play it, a Guy already said it before but it looks like nobody cares. If not playing a shell as it should be means it’s bad, then when i shoot with aphe on the engine at the back it doesnt kill the tank, aphe is bad ?
Already showed that an ap can do one shot a heavier tank with more spaced crew. Do the exact same test with exact same tank on panther mantlet, or just using any medium/heavy, and you’ll understand why isnt ap that bad
We’re getting off topic either way, the debate isn’t over whether AP can pen the front plate of a Panther (which most can’t) it’s over how APHE is completely and utterly overpowered to comical margins and breaks game balance.
As mentioned earlier please tell me how it’s fair that APHE can kill entire crews with terrible shot placement? It isn’t historical, it isn’t balanced and if you try the “some tanks need the one hit knock out!” then why is it okay for AP tanks to need multiple shots to kill yet if APHE had more of a possibility of needing 2 hits to kill it’s blasphemy?
As already mentioned APHE rounds do not lack the penetration to kill anything at their BR’s frontally and when they penetrate they’ll still do more damage than solid shot. But that orb of death absolutely has to go before anything else as it’s something that affects the game from reserve tanks all the way up to the Cold War.
One of the most powerful gun according the wiki…
Anyway ye let’s recenter about the subject.
Since the vote ended with no wining i guess majority of players dont think this is not fair, or at there are more importants fixes to do, and that’s personally what i think, and also what every no player that came here had writen. When. You Say it’s not balanced, i cant follow you because the br balance is made mostly according the current system, and if it’s still not over that balance, for a several years system, imagine how long it would be with new system.
That’s not true, the thing being that with a t44 you dont Pen everything front, you’ll have difficult too in jumbo (i dont mean it’s very hard, just that no, aphe dont Always pen).
Ye but you dont Always need the post pen power of a aphe, and it’s also made in wt for having n’est post pen. Let me give an example, you can one shot open tank with 150mm he, but you can also with 57mm. Even for flanking, firstly dont flank ap, and secondly you Can still shoot ammo. What is painful is small ap, coz these really does not much dmg, and i’d like it to change just a dash at least, but the thing being it’s not true for all ap, the more Big rounds being enough lot of time, i cant say i need an ap buff right now. And anyway nerfing aphe wont make ap, or any other shell, better. I dont understand ppl complaining about others shells not doing enough dmg but still shitting on no, when since it can mean that ppl would rather gaijin to work on smthg else than this APHE rework, the “smthg else” could be the other shell rework.
Also it would have been great to have pictures of test shell for bigger round, 76 to 88 for example, to see what it does on tank. I can swear you that there are ap at the lvl of the tiger that one shot it by shooter in the center, but it would be really weird if it appeared that there are aphe that couldnt with New mechanic
At any range over 50 meters, a 75 mm APCBC round needs over 207 mm of penetration for a 50% chance to penetrate the Panther’s upper glacis (80 mm at 55 degrees). For a 75 mm uncapped sharp nose AP round, that goes to 176 mm, but these rounds also have increased ricochet chances.
So either you use the POT-51A and risk ricocheting even if you have enough penetration to go through (and even still, it goes below a 50% chance of penetration at roughly 150 meters), or you use the PCOT-51P round, for which you need to below 50 meters to have a reliable chance of penetrating, due to the fact you need to be close enough to use your gun depression to shoot from above (which decreases the angle of impact from the original 55 degrees).
And since the 17 pounder is just weaker than the SA50 cannon (penetration wise), it obviously fares even worse.
I’ve never played a 17 pounder armed tank either, but it’s not hard to just do math (and you can test this yourself in a test drive even if you haven’t actually played these tanks).
Pen isnt the only thing that matters, either we would all play apcr and do not speak about this rework, and anyway pot has enough to looses a little part of the pen
POT has better penetration against highly angled armor than PCOT. That is something I explicitly showed.
However, it also has noticeably worse ricochet chances. Even if it does have an increased chance to penetrate if you only look at the penetration values, it is also just far more likely to bounce off. Even the M103’s 120 mm APBC round has around a 20% chance to simply ricochet off the Panther glacis with its 300 mm of penetration. POT would be slightly over 40%.
I know that ap have worse chance on angled plates, and ? Like i said, i put in theory for a reason, it’s that i know that in the hangar it shows we can, but on the battle things get harder, but that’s the case for the 75, not the 90mm ap
Stuff like the 17 pounder has more penetration than, say, a US 76 mm, but that is effectively meaningless when that penetration can’t actually be used in a meaningful way to penetrate more targets than the US 76 mm can. Even with the advantage of 50 mm of penetration of the 17 pounder, it still cannot penetrate a Panther reliably at all.
Granted, at the same time that is partly why stuff like the Sherman Fireflies end up lower BR than the Sherman 76s. Only the Italian Sherman VC sits at 5.0 because it gets APDS which is capable of actually penetrating targets like a Panther upper glacis.
Yes but the conversation was going about theory, it’s other things that are not part of the topic.
Yep, but the point being that it can be the case for this very ap, but it isnt true for all. Like i said, in the 90mm ap case, it has enough pen to go through plates that cant be pened with aphe at its br. You have 76mm ap, but you also have bigger rounds, and these rounds slaps, and since there are lot of them, you cant just ignore them. We should look how many are these compared to all ap.
The ap problem, whatever you think it is, it wouldnt be solved with New aphe mechanic
To be fair, I rather have them remove RNG ricochets then rework APHE.
But APHE rework comes right after that.
Of course what RNG ricochet does is reduce the damage to nothing, compared to reality, where AP or APHE would deal little damage, since the round might breech the armor but ricochet off.
So in a way, it’s just one of many issues of the penetration mechanics and simplified game mechanics.
Not sure a driver getting hit with armor spalling in his face should turn yellow and continue to drive like nothing happened.
But it’s kinda the same with all guns. Direct hit from a MG round also doesn’t stop any crews from continuing their duties, which is quite far fetched.
he is not a Russian youtuber, but a Ukrainian from Kiev. by the way, he is a former CS cybersportsman or something like that, so he is trying to get into the heads of his audience that wt should become the same arcade shooter but with tanks.
