Issue is that every other round would need a buff which seems a bit silly don’t you say? Yes some rounds do actually need a buff like hesh or reworked like HE but aside from that aphe sticks out as the best shell at everything which doesn’t really make much sense in a balance perspective
Some things like the tiger yes will be ever so slightly stronger, especially if they angle but it means playing differently as this will make people rethink bringing other rounds as they’re better for situations where you meet a tiger frontally instead of boring aphe only which not all nations even get
The shell wouldn’t kill one crewman unless there’s literally nothing behind where you did pen as instead of exploding and disappearing, the shell would carry on to damage modules further into the tank such as a crewman behind
Not really, HEAT-FS and APFSDS are already fine, they are in their own category.
Only rounds that would actually need a buff are solid AP, APCR, APDS and HESH, which isn’t that much, considering the first 3 of those are essentially the same thing, but with slight differences in mechanics.
Considering these shells are much less spread across the game than APHE and aren’t the current meta, it is much easier to change them without causing any balancing mess. Whatever they do with them won’t affect as many vehicles and will not completely reinvent the current armor system of the game.
Paradoxically it is much easier to buff all of those aforementioned shell types than nerf anything about APHE
No, this will make a new balance issue, Ussr and US tanks will get worse, especially for those can’t make overpressure shells, like 76mm, 85mm and 90mm guns, unless a new BR balance at the same time, such a change is not acceptable, or if want more historical, how about consider as the shell pen the armor, the crews will abandon the vehicle.
They aren’t. Due to terrible angle performance (that’s about APCR which is usually an alternative to APHE, msot vehicles don’t have APDS/solid AP paired with APHE) these shells won’t work against angled tiger and since the turret is a volumetric mess i wouldn’t feel comfortable shooting at it either, at that point i would still rather take that boring APHE and just take his barell out.
No need to load other types of shells just for an unreliable way of dealing with vehicles.
People lean towards APHE so much not because it is super strong, but because it is reliable. When you have APHE you know what you can expect after a penetrating shot. Other shells don’t come to it even close in this aspect and that’s what should be changed to make them work.
Remove that notorious shatter from APDS, add aditional spalling to all solid shot shells and maybe increase their damage in the straight line, just like was done with HEAT.
Solid shot shells already have much greater penetration and ballistics than nearly any other APHE shells of similar BR, just make them deal reliable damage in their range and they will be fair
Honestly somewhat excited to give this a try when the public testing happens - with a lot of time spread between tanks that do have APHE and ones that don’t myself, I think it’ll be interesting to see how people adapt to having to potentially consider where they want to shoot a tank no matter the shell type in use. I imagine fragmentation effects of APHE are still going to be effective enough to have most players’ allegiance, but causing consideration of different shots or tactics than just going for things like cupolas automatically would be nice.
I already don’t shoot for cupolas with most tanks regardless of the round in use because New Zealand ping means it’s very easy for tiny movements to happen and cause ricochets, and I still personally find tanks like the 75mm Jumbo alright in those circumstances; there’s definitely plenty of ways lower-penetration guns and APHE shells should still be able do their business with the reworked fragmentation imo, theoretically at least.
Regardless I’m certainly looking forward to trying this and seeing how it goes; things that cause more thought put in to result in more success gotten out I’m always willing to take a stab at with WT
So I was looking through this and saw some bad information I that I need to respond to.
Porsche Tiger (Pz.Bef.Wg.VI P) Direct Frontal OHK (before and after APHE changes).
I support the APHE changes a lot because of the fact that it currently is a click to win bullet.
It will require folks to learn ammo, shoot barrels and kill gunners, AND will still be better than AP… Which CAN STILL OHK or 2HK most enemies from most directions.
The two largest Nerfs are shots to the cupola and side, both of which should be less one hit kill, without proper aim.
After the changes it is no longer a one shot for a T-34-85 as long as the Porsche player has any brain.
Gunner, driver and ammo (if you don’t take a full stock like a moron) are all on 1 side of the tank, so after the changes you will be able to safely expose 1 side of your tank to take the shot without damage to any critical crewmembers or modules.
After the changes spalling to the side will be massively decreased, so the spall shouldn’t reach anything besides loader and machine gunner, or maybe engine with the new “head stays on trajectory” thingy
Also APHE is not a 1 click to win round, it is 1 good click to win, considering 1 click is also all it takes for your enemy to win. Which is fair
And forgot to mention, cupola shots are basically never one shots, unless you shoot a 200g+ tnt filler round (it causes internal overpressure, which will not be affected by the change, so it will still one shot) or your tank has only 1 crewmember in the hull, which as far as i know is the case only for the IS series.
All other tanks prone to cupola shots never die in 1 shot unless the 200g filler criteria is met. T-34-85s, panthers, tigers, T26E5s and so on all have 2 members in the hull that most of the time survive the shot.
Side shots on the other hand should always be 1 shot kills, no questions asked
After the changes it will have higher post pen damage enough to detonate ammo, AND with the spread how it currently looks to be in the models we have been shown there is a high chance that the gunner and or commander could also be taken out with those shots…
The only way after the changes that it will not be a one click is if the tank is hulled down. Which you then shoot barrel, get someone to flank, walk away and/or try to flank
Sure cupola shots are not always one shots… But you can shoot it twice and the tank will be dead so it doesn’t even matter. Want to know a sad fact?
Side shots I kind of agree with. But not when you scratch a tanks drive shaft with a shell and everyone inside dies with one shot.
Also another note. Should a 1.0 APHE at 500m be able to kill a 11.3 Clickbait in about 3 semi well placed shots? Because this is what you can do with the worst APHE shell in game.
You will not detonate the ammo, because as i have said if you take less than a full stowage, you will only have it on 1 side of the tank.
The side you are shooting at will be empty. And considering shell spall to the side can’t kill Tiger 1’s gunner with cupola shot, it will never reach Tiger P’s gunner with a hull weakspot shot. Projectile’s head might reach the engine though.
Cupola shots are hardly ever one shots and you can’t just hit it twice one after another. You need to wait for the gunner to switch back to it’s place, which gives enemy time to retreat or a fighting chance if your reload is longer than what it takes for him to restore his gunner.
And yes, i don’t mind a 1.0 APHE killing an 11.3 tank with pure side shots. You would be able to do that with any other type of shell
Great.The Soviets have been weakened. The British,the French and the Americans have not changed much.The Germans are the happiest because they have huge hulls&turrets and 200mm armor.
That’s what I was referring to when I said that apart from adjusting the APHE, you also have to adjust the damage of the other bullets to improve them and above all correct shots without damage or with minimal damage, which although it also happens to the APHE, The other bullets suffer from it on many more occasions, and there comes a point where it is disgusting to carry tanks without APHE.
The question, is that real? I understand that the American ammunition was not of very good quality, so they tended to break, that’s why they had the APCBC, but the curious thing is that the APCBC had a rounded tip, while the AP had sharp tip, apart from the fact that the APCBC tended to explode prematurely.
I mean it is possible that it could but the chances of it doing so weren’t likely due to how close you have to get or how incompetent the crew of the more sophisticated vehicle needs to be.
Here is the thing, both solutions are wrong. None of these models transfers the inertia of the round into the explosion.
This is missing since day 1 of ground forces.
You have the time to think of the distribution of shrapnel, bit cannot make a simple addition of vectors to add the grenades inertia to the explosion/shrapnel? It’s a simple addition, what the hell is wrong with the devs?
Inertia is far more important than the shrapnel distribution. Even with the correct distribution it will be comically wrong since the shrapnel going in the oposite direction of the direction the round travelled carry faaaar to much energy, which is one of the main issue of the damage modelling in WT.
Explosions are spherical relative to their origin not the target they struck, such a simple concept why is gaijin incapable of getting it right?
