i know what you mean.
Ive been trying to level the swedish 103, and i can tell you, when most maps are brawler maps and you are driving around in a stock 103 you will know pain and misery.
But i guess they have a plan, like making this game CS:GO with vehicles.
The part I find interesting is how the module research cost has been changed for certain vehicles. For example, the F-4E Phantom II is going from a module research costs of 482000 to 500000. Meanwhile, planes like the Russian SU-17M4, German SU-22M4, and Swedish MiG-21bis which are also at the end of their tech lines are going from around 500000 RP down to 440000, 439000, and 440000 respectively. Shouldn’t the module cost also be related the the BR of the aircraft, and if so, why will it now be so much more expensive to spade the F-4E over planes that are at the same BR (11.0 RB) and in equivalent positions at the ends of their respective trees?
Large maps are already in game. There are over 10 large maps, possibly over 20.
So you claim that Gaijin’s direction of diverse maps, especially large maps, is bad for you?
@Gruminator
CSGO has 4km x 4km maps? Since when?
I think your posts include false information. Large maps aren’t small.
During the time when the Panther II and the other German vehicles were being removed, you could sink just 1 RP into them, and they’d stay in your research tree like that forever. That’s why they are listed there.
You just love your strawmen arguments and twisting others words, don’t you?
“Large maps” with the same shitty knife fight objectives aren’t actually large maps in function. They are just small maps with long drive to get to the battle.
Also i didn’t know CS players were the size of an MBT… Obviously “small” is relative to the size and speed of the vehicle/character you are playing.
As far as I can tell, there are seven maps with the size required to provide actual long range options in Ground RB (thus excluding the sim, enlarged version of some maps): Fulda, Maginot, Red Desert, Fields of Poland, Surroundings of Volokolamsk, European Province, and Fire Arc.
That’s seven out of, I think, fifty-tree- A fifty-fourth map is coming in this update, Test Site 2217, and it looks to be another urban close-quarters map, though we can’t be sure until we actually play it, naturally.
Out of those numerous smaller maps, as many as thirty-five are under 2x2km, total. If you actually consider just the playable area, it drops to below 1.5x1.5km.
This, in and of itself, is already bad. The game has thousands of vehicles with different strengths and weaknesses. Purely going by these numbers alone, vehicles that specialise in sniping and struggle in close quarters are inherently penalised. This is, of course, on top of the additional issue that the game is built around capping points, which already makes long-range specialists more situational.
But this is only the beginning, because this is a whole onion of bad, and there are many more layers left to peel.
First of all, while those may be seven maps out of fifty-four, the map rotation system does not feature maps equally. I don’t know if there are global data available on this, but I can report my individual experience at least. I get Seversk, Hurtgen Forest, Alaska, Sweden, Golden Quarry and (small) Ardennes with embarrassing frequency. I can’t even remember the last time I got Volokolamsk.
The numerical preponderance of short-range maps is thus augmented by their preponderance in matchmaker selection. This penalises the performance of vehicles that do poorly in knife-fights even more.
The next layer of this ugly onion is map design. Even the “sniping” maps are not, in fact, built around sniping, or say, the effective utilisation of gun depression. Ultimately all of these maps still require you to get very up close and personal if you want to win, because of how they’re broken up. For example, even the infamous Fire Arc - the key to that map is the B point, which of course is inside a tiny cramped village whose control is usually decided by knife-fights and corner peeking.
Such maps are also frequently altered to further “streamline” the fighting towards the cramped areas, too. Meaning that the open areas simply become long drives on the way to the objective, where you’ll be slugging it at under 300 metres once more.
And even on the small maps, it sounds like whenever sniping-oriented players adapt and find locations where they can minimise the weaknesses of, say, turretless tank destroyers, those positions are immediately taken away.
Look at what happened to Jungle. The spot behind the F-row rocks, south of C, was my go-to when playing something like the Jagdtiger. There was no guarantee you’d get there uncontested. Even if you did get there, you could be flanked and be in a tough spot reacting, since turning right could expose your left side to people down on the road or up the opposite hill. It was also a prime bombing spot for CAS. In other words, it was not overpowered. Sometimes it didn’t work. Other times, I nearly get a nuke staying up there.
Now, that spot is sealed off. That is one fewer map where it makes sense for me to spawn in a JT first. Note, I’m not saying you can’t do well with it on Jungle, but that if you’re minmaxing, you’d always rather spawn in something else first, which is why now Jungle is a map I greet by spawning in a LeKPanzer first.
This is a balance problem. You can’t just handwave it away…
People like what they like, and it’s fine. I’m happy for people who like brawling to get brawling maps. But the lopsidedness is really bothersome, especially because every new map they add is invariably small. We’ve had Golden Quarry, which I don’t think I need to expand on, and Iberian Castle, which is imho a very good map and has at least one place where it is possible to have 900m-engagements, but is on the whole an urban map, won or lost by fighting in the town itself.
Sometimes it feels very disheartening, because there’s no acknowledgement whatsoever that this is an issue.
And I play WW2 almost exclusively. Can’t imagine what it’s like in top tier…
Not impressed. I don’t see how these changes are significant at all considering many of the cost reductions are only about 2 or 3 games worth of RP. Not everyone can have 7, 9, or 11 kill games especially in Air RB. There needed to be much more of a cost reduction above Rank V. Maybe someone with better spreadsheet skills can break it down by percentage change per tier, per vehicle and per country.
Yeah, I ain’t even going to bother with you.
If you don’t want your position criticized, don’t make it.
@AurenKarach
Also we know the “issue”.
People vote up the smaller maps and vote down the bigger maps, cause players prefer smaller on average.
Yeah.
But that’s only part of the explanation. The example I always make is this: people also prefer to lolpen every enemy they encounter without having to worry about pixel-hunting weakspots. And sometimes, this is indulged by Gaijin with some BR placements, but generally speaking, the game is quite technical when it comes to shot placement. It’s one of the best things about it, and one of the things that keeps the skill ceiling so high. Especially at certain BRs and with certain ammo loadouts, you simply NEED to know where to shoot, if you want to do well.
In this instance, we don’t give in to player preference for the game to be dumbed down. We present them with a challenge, and ask them to try and solve it.
…
Why are maps any different?
Strawmen, whataboutism and twisting others words isn’t exactly criticism.
Espousing every buzzword you heard in banned topic Discords isn’t congruent to constructive conversation.
Everyone aware of language knows I didn’t do any of those, but chose a method of critique that uses common facts of War Thunder to poke holes in a position in a non-hostile manner.
I didn’t mock them, I didn’t antagonize them.
I addressed the topic itself, sir.
Did you just have a stroke?
“So you claim that Gaijin’s direction of diverse maps, especially large maps, is bad for you?”
This is both strawman argument and twisting of words.
“CSGO has 4km x 4km maps? Since when?”
Another strawman.
No idea what this has to do with anything, as strawman doesn’t mean to antagonize or mock someone.
No, that’s a question. It’s not even a leading question.
And Euro Province, Red Desert, etc are 4x4km maps, so that was another genuine question.
A question that causes people to think, but still genuine.
Neither were assuming their position.
I’m up for reasonable discussion with anybody, and it’s none of your business to tell me what to write or what to not.
I just don’t respect you as a person, and it’s pointless to have a discussion with you, because you’re not arguing in good faith, and all you do in forum is defend Gaijin and War Thunder.
Go to any thread where OP is offering criticism towards the game, and there’s high possibility to find your comment there, defending it.
Tell yourself whatever you want.
We all know that wasn’t “genuine question” lmao…
I apologize if anything I stated upset you.
My only intention was to provide yourself & others the fact large maps do indeed exist, and your statements seem inappropriate for that context.
I want your critiques to be better presented, and I’ll gladly support such critiques.
I’ve called OP things OP personally, and most people seem to think that OP means when players are better than them.
Not sure why you seem to think critiques are defense, and good faith isn’t good faith, but you do you.
Hopefully one day you start respecting all good faith people.
And here we go i hoped for nice changes but like F16 from 420 000 to 400 000 WTF that is like 4 games difference i expected like -100k rp and “cost reduce” of 40k sl is a JOKE i dont care if the jet cost 40k sl less from 1M sl price tag its like drop in the sea. It smells like we give them little something so they shut up … kinda thing. To sumarize im dissapointed i hoped for more…
Oh yeah it’s a complete joke and slap in the face to what they “promised”. Can we actually be surprised though that we got screwed by them again? They played the long game, storm calmed down, and now people arent saying/doing enough to make them stick to their word. The reduction in rep across the whole board is embarrassing.
this