Following the Roadmap: Possible Changes to Ground Vehicle Damage Models

[anon12404003]

I voted and I know the vote should be anonymous, but… adding stun and concussion mechanics, I would leave it to World of Tanks. There is really no point of adding more mechanics, that Gaijin definitely gonna break at the beginning or after any future update and we all ground players gonna suffer from that. Trust me, it may be funny to troll others with it, but it’s double-sided sword, it will hit you and it won’t be funny anymore.

No matter how realistic or simulator like this can be, we should give it a bit more time to reconsider that one mechanic. I believe it’s gonna be like a red crew members, and if your crew member is really red from the damage he survived, the stun gonna be unbearable.

Other changes or additions, very much yes, I would like them to be added. Especially heal for my crew members. Many times I have the issue with red driver or gunner and I would him to rather bleed out than gamble for the rest of the game, whether my next opponent will have terminator reaction or will be busy fighting someone else, while I have to wait until red driver takes me to proper position or red gunner gonna turn the gun :/

[TwitchyNGL]

Actual solutions:
Spall Ricochets: This does not happen in game and it makes things like IS-3s annoying to fight especially with HESH as the entire load of spall goes directly toward the floor plate then ceases to exist. If some spall bounced back up it’d create much greater and more realistic levels of damage. (This may have performance impact but surely if the game can manage the extreme amount of shells that hit in naval, this would not be entirely unfeasable).
e.g

Spoiler

Lets test what happens when a HESH projectile over 72KG HEAVY (heavier than a man!) hits a T-44s angled plate!
Watch War Thunder 2024.04.16 - 16.20.30.04.DVR | Streamable
This is extremely easy to repeat in game, it happens with any vehicle with angled armour and makes things with very angled extremely hard to kill with HESH. Though of course spall ricochets would help for ALL ammunition, crampt spaces like T-34 turret would be less likely to a battle of killing one man again and again and again.

Hydraulic Traverse fires: A sizeable chunk of the ground vehicles in game would have flammable hydraulic fluid running through the traverse wheel, this is not modeled in game. It’s something modern tanks like CR2 and Leo 2 avoid by being all electric, and Abrams fixed mid life by replacing it with a less flammable fluid.

More consistent damage especially on gun mantlets: This is clearly a bug but I’m not able to get to the source of the problem, but gun mantlets especially noticable on Panther and 76mm Sherman will often be penetrated and do almost zero spalling after the fact. And of course there’s another thousand ways of being gaijined and having rounds inexplicably non pen that if you solved it’d make people very happy.
e.g

Spoiler

So I realise I’m diagnosing two different issues here but it’s definitly a problem where moving parts will cause no spalling to occur, I have only one record issue of this happening currently, in this example a Tiger IIs turret is rotating, causing the round to penetrate, create 0 secondary effects, bounce off the mantlet doing no damage, THEN killing the commander. This is a little silly but I have seen much worse examples, like 28 pounder rounds going through 76mm Sherman mantlet, out the back of the turret and doing 0 damage.

More detailed internal modules would be good, but I am sceptical you’d find good sources for 80% of the vehicles in game for wiring etc. And it should also include damagable autoloaders (not modeled at all) and armoured bins (only modeled on a few modern things skipping older vehicles like Cromwell).

Stunning could easily be extremely annoying and unpopular, so I’d like to be able to test it first. I can imagine situations where drivers get stunned that suddenly halts the whole vehicle. (also frankly can we change that? Can vehicles retain momentum on death / driver killed? So vehicles will keep rolling for a short while, it’d be realistic and more interesting than randomly the parking brake being applied)

Healing I think should be limited, like kept to healing on objectives only.

[MokaMoki]

Even if it’s just 1-2 seconds, no. Absolutely no. The game doesn’t need it and clearly players don’t want it.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

Just because it wasn’t the best example it doesn’t mean there aren’t countless other examples that are; and I deleted it both because I don’t feel like fighting the disproportionate hatred flame war that was already being sparked, and because it wasn’t the best example indeed, so there is no need to keep bringing it up because it was deleted for a reason.

What always amazes me about this community is that many users can’t seem to just disagree, no; they feel entitled to their own opinion, and rightfully so… but then try to silence and bash anyone who disagrees. And I have grown tired of such uncivilised and childish behaviours.

[ZendikarHaven]

And against autocannon stuff you are quite literally helpless…

[Shadow_CZ]

I mean I can accuse you of the same thing since you are saying it would help even in cases which it wouldn´t as you posted gameplay vid where the stun wouldn´t trigger.

I would say that many are just pointing to the WOT implementation since it can somewhat show how it would look like in actual gamepley. Mind you in case of WOT only artilery has ability to stun so in WTs case it would happen more often.

And while the stun is proposed to be shorter it has many more aditional gimmicks slaped on top of it (camera shake, sparks, aim drift) that it will be arguably much much worse then the WOT implementation.

[foxmeup]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

Specially the increased modelling detailing of internal modules. I remember suggesting something similar a long time ago, I am glad to see this coming into effect!

and what will happen when these new modules will work like armor and protecting the crew? You know how durable some modules are (german transmission lol) and i can’t imagine gaijin implementing this the right way.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

I like the idea of stunned crew!

on what parameters, overpressured crews getting stunned or crews going from t800 to t1000 and now tanking repeated killing blows?

[02ded]

how about testing it first, everything is always subject to change

if players dont like how they implement it(if the stun wins the vote), just change whatever is wrong, be it camera shake, or tinnitus

everything is customisable, what they said in the devblog is not solid

[Toxin]

The vote is now, not after the change. Everybody knows how hard it is to get gaijin to change something after it has been implemented.

[MokaMoki]

Also remember, the staff drop these and hide. None of our comments, concerns, or questions will get passed on because the forums, as Gaijin has shown numerous times, are not a place for suggestions or feedback. Still trying to figure out where one actually does, but it’s not here. Just vote no.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

Yeah… maybe they should have opened an event tab to test out some of these things live.

[ZendikarHaven]

What should be done is nerfing heavily the crew survivability and implementing critical are that are insta-kill.

Ehh…
Honestly crew survivability atm seems fine, all I want is an AP buff and such.

[WieseAufmWald]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

Tanks are crewed by flesh and bone human beings

I’m more concerned about the flesh and bone human beings playing the game that might get epilepsy, motion sickness or even just a headache from all the flashy and shaky effects being added. I can live with crew stun mechanics but it should NOT influence the player’s view, especially in third person. You’re not playing as a specific crew member.

Also, we’re playing a game and war sucks irl. There should be a limit to how realistic a game is before it becomes annoying to play.

[Necronomica]

@Stona_WT

The first way

I like this! More realism! :)
I would also advocater for the destroyed sights to actually do something. right now it affects nothing if the sights/glass/viewport is broken. perhaps add the function of not being able to use thermals/night vision and perhaps shattered glas while aiming?

@Stona_WT

The second way

I like the stun idea, not so much the random aim thing or the shake.
A stunned gunner probably wont randomly aim IRL and would more than likely not aim at all. i would like to see a non ability to aim (just like when gunner is killed) OR a slowdown in aim (like when engine is out). This would be far more realistic and less jarring for players.

@Stona_WT

The third way

interesting, have no real spontaneous input here. could be good, could be bad, i don’t know.

@Stona_WT

healing for injured ground crew members

Very interesting, any plans on introducing a bleed-out mechanic (that would work like fire damage to crew)?

[MiseryIndex556-psn]

There should be a minimum spall amount. Any round that penetrates should generate a minimum amount of spall, no matter how thin the armor is. Light tanks should not take more hits to destroy than heavy tanks.

I’m against the crew stun mechanic. It would be a good mechanic if implemented properly, but I have no faith it will be implemented properly.

Returning to spawn with any vehicle should automatically heal and rearm the vehicle. It should be restored to 100%, like landing at an airstrip does for aircraft. I’m talking component health, crew health, ammo and consumables all 100% maxed.

[PleppyPlogg]

wouldn’t a solution be the careful re-implementation of hull-break for large bore rounds hitting paper thin vehicles. I think that would be better, and has far less of a chance of backfire.

[ZendikarHaven]

Agreed, as long as overpressure is retained as well.

[foxmeup]

@MiseryIndex556

There should be a minimum spall amount. Any round that penetrates should generate a minimum amount of spall, no matter how thin the armor is. Light tanks should not take more hits to destroy than heavy tanks.

the spalls are mostly ok, their damage on the other hand, aren’t. It’s not really a matter of hitting crews more than actually damaging them that is the problem.

[MokaMoki]

Considering the fact that a lot of vehicles are still missing their spall liners, the idea of increasing the amount of spall seems really dumb.

[桜の戦士]

New game mechanics like this can make the game more complicated and I think it might be better if the second and third votes are based on the simulation game mode. In addition, I hope to see such an announcement about the RP bonus in the coming days.