Gaijin is STEALING from players. Not in the legal sense, but in the moral sense. It doesn’t matter if it is intentional or unintentional, it is similarly wrong (logic reflection). Guess what contributes the largest part of Gaijin’s income? New players buying expensive top tier premium vehicles and packs. Same people who are the most prone to accidentally TKing with missiles at top tier.
What is the reality of the modern situation? Nobody is going to read the long ToS when making a War Thunder account. New players, who naturally make mistakes, are only aware of the SL consequence of teamkilling, as there is no information to warn them. Then their accounts are banned for long periods of time, or even permanently. They will certainly lose the premium time they paid for in any case. (Although improbable, possible profit incentive of Gaijin is present, as banned players may make new accounts and spend more money).
I forgive most teamkills, since they are accidental. It is part of the learning process, and even experienced players such as myself can make mistakes occasionally. If I played Simulator mode more, I would probably easily be over the threshold for banning, seeing the massive 23+ thousand banned players in this cycle alone. Teamkilling is often unavoidable due to the complex nature of weapon systems in WT; in real life, friendly fire is an unfortunate reality as well. Hell, sometimes I even enjoy being bombed by a friendly aircraft when numerous enemies are also taken out in the blast.
Point is, teamkilling should not be bannable with such a low threshold of TKs to qualify for a ban. It’s a game feature that can easily be removed if necessary. Banning people for doing something that can easily be stopped is a immoral tactic of Gaijin. To compare with the real world: Imagine the government of a nation sets up stores for illegal drugs, just to catch people, and send them to the prison.
It is not my logic. Most of A-10 “team kills” was infantry, we don’t have that in wt.
Imho the USSR within the Stalin era is after post WW 2 China #2 regarding irl “team kills” - but i read just about penal battalions for infantry soldiers, but imho due to “lack of fighting spirit” or misalignment with leadership ideology.
Combat is chaotic by default an extreme stress for all - i do not believe that any irl vehicle based combat had an “intentional” team kill issue.
In the context of ground sim I disagree on both points. I hope this and my earlier feedback will be passed along to Gaijin.
In my experience, there are very few frequent teamkillers deserving more than the already sufficient auto-kick system. Any multi-day ban is too much and may inhibit all players decisions in game.
This is too strict for the modes of play currently available in War Thunder.
While most of the Abrams killing was done by other Abrams and Attack Helicopters, we do have that in WT.
I am keeping and eye one of the conflicts that lasts for 3 years and… I can’t reproduce stories about intentional TKs here. So let’s really disable any punishment, then sit and look at player count number of wisdom.
3.1. These War Thunder specific rules expressly prohibit causing damage to teammates or so-called “friendly fire” in a Game, including, without limitation, the following actions: inflicting damage to teammates’ vehicles or any of their parts, destroying teammates’ vehicles or any of its parts, disorienting teammates. Please note that damaging teammates is forbidden even if the damaging functionality is technically allowed in a Game.
3.2. The sanctions for violating the above-mentioned rule are automatically imposed by the in-game system that analyzes the Player’s in-game behavior. In exceptional cases, the Administration may manually evaluate the alleged violation and set the corresponding sanction.
Great to see teamkilling get punished, but this quote worries me
There was a situation recently in a ground battle. My cannon was destroyed, I couldn’t move and I was surrounded by multiple enemies. Meanwhile a bomber asked to mark where bombing was needed. I marked myself on the map and the bomber dropped on my position, taking out myself and two of the enemies.
This is not the only situation I remember where a teamkill was not malicious. Others can be clear accidents of aircraft flying into friendly bullets/missiles or even the defeat of a teamkiller going in for their second teamkill of the match.
There needs to be some form of way to filter out such cases.
Most of these can be solved through implementation of a feature to forgive a teamkill, while the specific case of fighting malicious teamkillers should just be a consideration when checking the replays and filtered out manually.
I see the radar being cluttered with other planes on most of them, and the one where its only one plane the lock is weak (no full 2 red circles) because you’re using a PD with almost no closure rate. You can just attribute all of them to terrible launch conditions.
Optimally you want a strong lock (indicated by 2 full red circles) and no other planes in the vicinity. Yes, that includes no other planes in the general frontal arc. Getting stray radar returns from other planes or chaff confuses the missle. There is a good reason none of your clips are with a strong lock against the sky with no other planes around.
First clip: Enemy plane dives a bit, missile tries to pull lead and pulls into the ground.
Second clip: Radar clutter by other planes in your frontal arc (and passing by closely).
You realize that military UCMJ punishments are not public unless they decide to make it public right? Google isnt he end all be all. Having been with an Infantry unit which had a blue on blue incident due to an inept private, A LOT is the punishment for a friendly fire incident.
Who says they speak your language and understand your callout? Is it their fault they couldn’t understand you and you can’t drop your bomb at a safe distance from them?
no, a good launch means there is no other plane nearby, especially not a teammate. ir aams kill team mates often when you do bad launches that you should’ve avoided.
you could just not spray and pray at enemys or shoot missiles with friendlies nearby, unless you’re certain they won’t be in the way to catch your fire.
Short, controlled bursts are very unlikely to hit teammates, and trigger discipline with your missiles helps too.
Sometimes this doesn’t happen during “spray and pray” or you can fire a missile clear of friendlies but only in the last moment they cross the path of missile/bullets.
I have been the one to be accidentally hit before and sometimes it was just clearly my own fault. I don’t need people punished for my own mistakes.
I also know the feeling of a missile going for a stray teammate rather than the enemy it was shot at just because they happened to cross the missiles path, so when I’m hit and it is clearly not on purpose, I don’t need to punish someone for it.
With an option to forgive, it is still up to those affected to select it. They could still not select it if they feel it is solely the teammates fault and they need to be punished.
if the friendly makes it between the missile and the enemy it’s not clear of friendlies. They can’t be far away if you can hit them, especially because missiles are much faster than planes.
The fault lies with the person who did a terrible launch. There is no “that target was MINE, you shouldn’t have come close”. You also can’t know when friendlies are intending to launch missiles.
I can repeat myself 50 more times, if you need me to: if the friendly is close enough to get in between the missile and your target, you SHOULD NOT LAUNCH A MISSILE. you’re supposed to launch missiles when it’s impossible for a friendly to catch it by accident.
that’s a case-by-case and depends on how forgiving the person you teamkilled is. I generally don’t forgive people TK’ing me with missiles, because it’s their fault.
So you’re saying in a low speed, low altitude fight I need to check above and behind me if a friendly comes diving in before starting to shoot the enemy?
If there is no friendly on screen during the launch and the enemy then manages to fly in a way that puts a friendly between them and the missile that is not a mistake to be punished.
Sure, I can count the number of times an enemy randomly crossed me from behind before getting obliterated by a friendly missile on one hand, but I’d still want to forgive those cases.
And that’s your choice, fair enough.
But I would very much like to forgive at least about half of the times I’ve been teamkilled since they were either clear and honest mistakes or literally ordered by me to bomb the surrounding enemies.
The chance to hit a friendly with short, controlled bursts is very slim, and you’re not getting banned from a TK or two in a month. Probably still a good idea to check if you want to fire a missile.
Also in a low speed, low altitude fight you’d probably hear the friendly coming in.
You might want to stop hyperfocusing on the target like a horse with blinders and increase your situational awareness, not only because of friendlies, but other enemies approaching you too.
If a friendly manages to get between the enemy and the missile, they can’t be far out of your view. Look around a bit every now and then.
if they cross you from behind you were in plain view of the one that shot the missile, which makes it a terrible launch, yet again.
what you forgive is your own decision and I will not argue about it. I’m just telling you that 99% of the accidents people describe here are entirely avoidable and therefore it’s valid if people who rack up alot of “accidents” get banned because they refuse to learn how to avoid those accidents or even just keep those accidents very rare.
If you pay attention and take care you won’t teamkill enough to get even a temp ban.
True, teamkills in general are rare from my experience. That is apart from the usual airfield clowns and the guys salty someone took a kill or base they wanted, but those deserve their bans.
Fair enough. I’m mostly concerned about the “tactical maneuvers” in ground battles. If I’m alone between 4+ enemies then I might tell the teams Pe-8 to drop on my position. That’s a worthy trade I chose to make and not a teamkill, there needs to be a way to forgive that.
As for the “mistakes”, it’s mainly for what I consider my own mistakes. If I am greedy and enter a busy dogfight from behind to get a kill and end up sweeping right into a teammates cannon burst, that is 100% on me.