Well, I don’t dislike the idea, ‘fixing the F-14 properly for sending them where they belong.’
but dislikes the idea, 'We need to [Make Tomcat Great Again] by sending them back down to undertiered level for compress again and harass the match all over again. :/
Yes. Tomcats are planes with a complicated problem.
Still too good for punching 3rd-gen on the downtier,
In the meantime, too awful for the fight against the other 4th-gen.
Sorry if my comments were felt offensive.
It might be due to long-term hatred to some of the ‘bad tomcat mains’ who are just biasing tomcat into ‘worshipping level’
while they care nothing else but Tomcat when we need to discuss about balancing.
nothing but large scale decompression is needed to fix this problem properly.
windows are damn too narrow for balance fr.
Or We can go easy way of delete AIM-54A from F-14A early and send them 12.3BR for being side-grade version of F-4EJ Kai (better FM, but worse IR)
Or in head on passes that are common and can be used as decoys as well because even the IRCCM Magic 2 prefer to go for them 98% of the times (works with rockets as well). Not to mention F-104S ASA has AIM-9Ls.
Ok, in comparison for its tier Tomcats is bad as well. In comparison with Mirage F.1 … i mean do we really compare SARH MF.1 with 23MLD? Are we really doing this?
Everything in an uptier is bad -usually. Again, Mirage F.1 is 12.0… F-104S ASA is 12.0 . F-104 FM is abyssmal against anything from 10 and above anyway.
eeh… Ok… just 2. Still flarable , if you preflare…heavily useless in head-on passes , they have a sweet spot that are not easily countered. Ok against 23MLD one has way better SARH, the othe way better IR. Still , should MLD be below Mirage f.1 and F-104S ASA with AIM-9L?
Everything is about POV. Why don’t all stay at the decompression and start pointless comparisons?
I made a wrong comparison, because comparisons at this level are wrong. We need decompression.
Even then , Mirage F.1 is better in defence than in offence. 12.0 SARHs are good enough to make the game (yes fly low etc.- same goes for Phoenix ) . And it’s not like Mirage F.1 Radar is a miracle. It’s crap. And its SARH even more crap.
In general, i stated my opinion on the matter multiple times. Make Tomcats as they should be by data and uptier them as they should be. Also decompression. It’s too tight to even make a streight comparison and were should be placed and that goes for many planes.
I have never subscribed to this as a super valid way to play. It is basically playing a game of slots where what determines whether you win or not is whether the enemy remembers where their flare key is.
I also don’t think too many people are using missiles on other missiles when they have flares.
It’s also a garbage plane in almost every other respect besides top speed and these 9Ls you speak of.
No, the MiG-23’s radar is worse for 11.7 than the F-14A’s radar is worse for 12.7. Regardless the point is the F14A just demolishes all gen3s and we don’t need that kind of compression.
Both are not great radars?
Ok… what do the Mirage F1 and the F-104S.ASA have to do with the F-14 again?
Still essentially 2 free kills? far more than what say, 4 9Ls provide usually.
I’m aware! Though I think you and I both know it is disingenious to pretend IRCCM missiles are just as easy to flare as non-IRCCM missiles?
Yes, it should be below the F1 as the F1 has essentially two free kills strapped to it. (IRCCM missiles are extremely valuable) and the F1’s other stats do not make it bad enough to warrant 11.7.
23MLD is one of the best 11.7s but its not so good it should be the same BR as something like F-4S or Tornado ADV
If everyone here actually thought the F-14s were too strong for their BR, they would be advocating to buff them properly. Instead you choose the lazy route, which is to spam the same rhetoric that isn’t even true half the time. I’m having to constantly correct you guys when you make assertions about the F-14/Phoenix.
Oh, and for the love of God, stop accusing each other of not wanting decompression. We all want it. That’s not what this topic is about.
F-14A IRIAF on release at 12.3 was ridiculous. It rightfully got moved up to 12.7 after the F90 got buffed multiple times. It had no business having those missiles against aircraft like the F-104S ASA and other 11.7/12.0 aircraft that have minimal or 0 defense vs a missile. Balancing an aircraft is not done by adding/removing its weapons, but by adjusting its BR. I’d rather F-14A IRIAF be subpar than stomp and invalidate most of the aircraft at its BR, thus 13.0 is balanced.
“The flight performance is bad!!!” See the J-8F, Sea Harrier F.A. Mk.2, Tornado F. Mk.3 CSP, AV-8B Plus at the same BR, all of which have ARH weapons.
“The RWR is bad!!!” Your tradeoff for having BY FAR the best ARH missile in the entirety of the game in terms of speed and reach.
“The IR missiles are bad!!!” Many aircraft fall into the same boat. One example: MiG-29 9.12A. It has 2 very potent R-27ERs, but your heaters are the subpar R-60M. MiG-29 is also very mediocre in the current state of the game.
“F-90 is easy to dodge!!!” It’s the same exact process for every ARH missile. One is not harder than the other to dodge. Multipathing it (mostly applicable to stock aircraft) is excessively difficult though. For this, you could say it’s harder to dodge.
F-14A IRIAF does not need R-73 (never operational) or more F90 pylons, it is not excessively bad, nor is it underequipped at 13.0. It is still not the worst 13.0 aircraft (J-8F, Sea Harrier perform significantly worse) by a decent margin. F-14A should not dominate the meta like the Ayit, Pyorremyrsky, J-7D or XP-50 do at lower BRs. Those aircraft are blatantly unbalanced and should not be used as a balancing standard, instead moved up themselves. F-14A IRIAF has been placed at a fine spot where it is usable, but not oppressive. It does not need buffs or a reduction in BR.
The Fakour-90 was only buffed once. Again, you choose to use selective language to push your point instead of just saying it how it is.
They do have defense against them.
All the vehicles you’re mentioning are already pretty universally agreed upon to be overtiered, which heavily mitigates your point.
All of those have modern ARH missiles which outperform the Fakour. They also have All Aspect IRCCM missiles, digital RWR, and all aspect PD radar. Thats the standard for 13.0. The F-14A IRIAF has none of that. Before you say “The Fakour is better than those cuz range or whatever…” Ignoring the fact the Fakour can’t track rear aspect, compare any statistic that isnt range or acceleration and you see that they Fakour is notably behind by around 30%-50%.
Not by far, and that doesn’t excuse the Airframe lacking baseline features for it’s BR.
Again, you completely ignore the difference in airframe ability (and the R-60M is still better than the Aim-9P, so not a very good comparison, not like there are any). Even at 12.7, the Mig-29 has most of the standards for 13.0. The F-14A does not.
It’s not the same. The Aim-54/Fakour can only track in rear aspect and doesn’t filter chaff out at all. The other modern ARH missiles do this. (Not to mention they can be used close range and high off bore to get kills, which is impossible to do with the Fakour)
I don’t really have sympathy for people who rely on multipathing. Not only should it not be in the game to this degree, but it also makes Agro gameplay unfun and actually decoying a missile a rare occurrence.
I’m going to ignore the “never operational” part because there’s a 99% chance you benefit from a vehicle in this game that has something wasn’t used in service. It’s does need the R-73 and it’s does need 6 Fakours. As I’ve said previously it has almost no standards for its BR, and even with these weapons, it would still be lacking survivability and avionics.
I never have mentioned these planes or compared them to the F-14 in my entire life. What I will mention though is that giving the IRIAF 6 Fakours and R-73s would in no way make it dominate, as it hasn’t been “dominating” at 13.0 because it doesn’t have the standards for 13.0. Giving it those buffs would give it 2/8 standards for 13.0, and wouldn’t change the blatant and fundamental underperformance of the F-14A airframe at 13.0.
When you reply, can you genuinely be honest and don’t over-inflate stuff to fit your argument? We can disagree and debate without it. I promise.
I mention one specific aircraft and a broad group. The broad group includes examples like the F-4J and JA 37D. Their RWRs either do not detect PD launches, or do not have IFF: a major disadvantage. My point stands strong.
The F90 as i have already stated is far more potent than the other missiles. These aircraft were stated to have worse flight models and in some cases, their weapons are worse.
Wrong. Many 13.0 aircraft lack at least one. J-8F, JA 37D lack IRCCM missiles. JA 37D, J-11 lack digital RWR. Tornado F.3 CSP lacks all-aspect doppler.
Plus, all of the aircraft i listed in the above post have significantly worse flight performance than F-14. Also include JA 37D. As an example, J-8F is a heavier MiG-21 with 4 mediocre or even subpar IRs for the BR and a mere two PL-12s. It is trash.
The aircraft can be compared to other aircraft at the BR as it has the same drawbacks as many of them, while just rocking superior long-range weapons. Regarding the F90, it does track in rear aspect. It has the best acceleration and range, hits with immense speed. The G-overload is adequate as you aren’t outrolling a missile with that kind of speed. To think the F90 is inadequate because you can’t stomp 11.7s with it is ridiculous.
Two garbage missiles? So what if the R-60M is better than the AIM-9P? It’s almost as useless in most games because it has a bad seeker and even worse range. The F-14 as i have said is still one of the better airframes in 13.0. MiG-29 has the same 60 CMs, no ARH, no digital RWR. It’s radar is not very reliable. It does not have the same capability as an F-14A IRIAF.
Different missile, different performance envelope. It doesnt have to be good sub-5km to be strong. You said above it can’t track from behind, but you are still wrong. Chaff filtering doesn’t make realistically any difference from the games i have played since it was added.
Your bias shows, your opinion on multipathing ingame is irrelevant.
It doesnt need to dominate. Regardless, nearly every plane with ahistorical modeling has a disadvantageous one. (ex. ROCAF F-16A missing 30 CMs due to bug, J 29D missing HS-825 cannons) and i could not list off the top of my head what else is inaccurate. There are still ZERO “STANDARDS” for 13.0. The aircraft is capable enough as it stands. It’s performing fine.
Oh i’m simply stating the facts. Your only experience at 13.0 is your F-14. You are so incredibly biased and it’s very obvious. F-14A IRIAF being by far your most played aircraft in air combat is a major red flag. You’re understating the capabilities quite a bit. You barely have 1000 games and nearly 1/3 are the F-14. You’re inexperienced and biased, just throwing all your blatantly incorrect statements out the window.
I just think at it’s new BR it needs other options because it now has to rely on f90 and r27r1 because it’s other options are aim7e-df-2 and aim9p which are just abysmal at 13.0
Even though AIM-54 might underperform.
on that era (which was nearly 8 months ago), it was somehow okay to punching some of the ground hugging attackers.
it was extremely boring to play the game as a non-US main since half of our team just got thanosed by phoenix spam. :/
i have made 134 battles on the F-14B recently (post multipath nerf) and in my experience multipathing completely nullifies my aim54 with 60kg warhead like in this example idk why i often heard others say its warhead is too powerful that it still kills multipathers anyway
F14A is mid as your radar dog water compared to other planes F14A weak engines mean no energy retenion it bleeds similar to a mig 21 turns well like three times then bleeds it all Aim 9 H is mid and aim54A is a massive paper weight just use aim7Fs and they easy to dodge dont even need chaff if you notch right and they dont work well as a fox-3 not to mention engine temp of 2000F+ and you have to shut off engines to flare its just mid like not great not terrible mad annoying they refuse to buff it to IRL standards because dual plane manuvering is a marketing ploy F14B just get crapped on by everthing at the br F14B fighting fox-3 every match is crazy
Might be the problem of splash damage by the blast radius of a 60kg warhead.
Phoenix hits ground → fragmentation and explosion hits plane anyway
I guess.
I had one time experience similar to that when I notched and defeated AIM-54
I defeated the missile’s seeker itself, but I acted too late to defend against.
Ended up with losing tails by a near-miss hit. Thanks to Proximity fuse and large explosive. :/
